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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Fenestron tail don't hold ?...NOW HOLD !
04-06-2011 03:41 AM  6 years agoPost 21
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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I did it

The last month I tried lot of options, and finally I found the solution.

I installed a brushless motor directly in the fan...after test two diferent motors ( low KV'v high torque vs High KV's ) the best option was a 3000 KV's motor.

I'm using at least for now a separate battery, 11,1 volts 800mhA battery ( from the Rex 250), and an 15 Amper Speed Control from the same Rex 250.

3000 KV's Brushless motor (directly to the fan)
15 Amper Speed Control ( Align 250)
11,1 Battery 800mhA ( from the Align 250)
Gyro Futaba 401 ( the speed conected directly to the Gyro)
2 programable mixers in the Futaba 10ch TX

Today I tested with two blades head and worked really nice, make the video of this flight.

Tomorrow I will test with four blades head custom made and Heli Artist Scale Carbon Blades shortened to 300mm.

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04-06-2011 04:46 AM  6 years agoPost 22
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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I see one other thing that can have an effect on performance of that tail...there seems to be an awfull lot of clearance between the blades and the housing. Most fengstroms are very tightly sealed units.. maybe you can tighten that up with a little more blade surgery. Similar to a ducted fan for performance.

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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04-06-2011 05:12 AM  6 years agoPost 23
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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I see one other thing that can have an effect on performance of that tail...there seems to be an awfull lot of clearance between the blades and the housing. Most fengstroms are very tightly sealed units.. maybe you can tighten that up with a little more blade surgery. Similar to a ducted fan for performance.

Many "T'Rexs, Vario Huey gasser,CH-53 Turbine.and the list goes on..
Again you are 100% right, indeed one of the problems was that clearence, anothers are the low quality of the building.

I tried make a set of blades to correct that, with narrow chord that theoretically are most eficients, don't like the results...poor gain in tail authority.

Problems with Fenestron are well know, specially for the high RPM's needed, today make 10 flights of 6 to 7 minutes each, all seems ok with the new approach.

I just do not post the video because I will install the four blades head and test tomorrow, then I will post the video with good or bad results...

That I realized making that mod is the difficult to make the tail without mobile parts work like an mechanic one, but soon as I found the way and test I was surprised with the control and smoothness of flight.

In the video will show the radio setup.

Btw...with this mod I managed to eliminate unnecessary weight of 260grams ( tail boom with gears, belt, tail servo, lead in the nose to correct CG, I cutt off parts of the frame and in the fan itself.

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04-06-2011 03:50 PM  6 years agoPost 24
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Nice solution, keep working at it to get it perfect.

If you skip me I can't play!

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04-06-2011 07:51 PM  6 years agoPost 25
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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Looking good ..I wish I had your skills ...!!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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04-07-2011 03:25 AM  6 years agoPost 26
Krumrick2

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finally the test video

In the video i show three differents setups:

Two blades flybar head with 1200KV's motor

Four HeliArtist scale blades shortened to 300mm and 3000KV's motor

Four CopterX scale plastic blades and 3000KV's motor

In all no electronic to stabilization, but I think is needed, will try with Align 3G soon.

with two blades head flight time up to 7 minutes ( very good)
with HeliArtist blades reduced to 5 minutes ( still good with an old battery).

but with the CopterX blades only 3:30 minutes and the motor overheated, this blades are to heavy and had wide chord, the HeliArtist blades have better shape en weight but are more difficult to fly.

Watch at YouTube

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04-07-2011 09:47 PM  6 years agoPost 27
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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you can definitly see the controllability issues with the shorter blades..as should be expected with a smaller disc area. Now you have to find something in the middle? or add a stabilization system?

The good thing is though... that tail seems pretty predictable

BTW.. Nice Job!!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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04-08-2011 12:22 AM  6 years agoPost 28
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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you can definitly see the controllability issues with the shorter blades..as should be expected with a smaller disc area. Now you have to find something in the middle? or add a stabilization system?

The good thing is though... that tail seems pretty predictable

BTW.. Nice Job!!
thanks mate,

I thinks in use the Align 3G, I have one and tried to install but seems that the sensor is broke.

...after the problems with the 3G I tried the Gaui365, don't like it !...in the first attempt to take off the heli bank violently to the right, and the blades hit the ground ( Heli Artist ones).

'll get another Align 3G ( the best option in time and cost).

talking in the tail authority, is a litle bit slow to respond, but there is no wag or bad tendencies at all !. In the videos don't show because the camera is fixed and I have litle room to maneuver, but I do Fast Forward Flight and all OK!.

Next week will post video in open field to show in FFF...need my camera man ( or better: camera wife rsrsrs).

Manuel

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04-08-2011 09:06 PM  6 years agoPost 29
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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one word Manuel... "BeastX"!! you will love it!!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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04-08-2011 10:10 PM  6 years agoPost 30
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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coptercptn one word Manuel... "BeastX"!! you will love it!!
yes...I know is better, but here things are 100% more expensive, the BeastX can cost up to U$S 500.00 ...the Align 3G only U$S 250.00 complete with the rotorhead, Actually i'm using the Align FBL blade grips for multiblades projects.

The FBL unit by Align selling by a friends store, far 1200 Kms ( 750 miles from my home, i'm visit that store one time every month.

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04-09-2011 03:30 PM  6 years agoPost 31
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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no, Manuel.. I bought my beastx on e-bay brand new..no shipping for 200$

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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04-09-2011 04:30 PM  6 years agoPost 32
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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coptercptn no, Manuel.. I bought my beastx on e-bay brand new..no shipping for 200$
yess. I know...but that is USA, here in Brasil we pay just to start 6% over the cost and shipping in the credit card...then up to 60% over this
Shipping worlwide is more expensive to.

The unit in Brasil will cost a minimun of U$S 320.00
I'm aware that the BeastX is better, but In the Align I have the rotorhead in the box, that is good because I can use that for my projects or sell to others as spare parts, 99% of the helis can seen at the field are Align ones, Brasil is complicated.

But most important, the Align 3G do his job really well.

Take a look in my videos, can see a few scales with the 3G flying perfectly.

Bell UH1 600
Century Jet Ranger 600
Century Bell UH1 90 size with 600 mechanics
Airwolf 600 Nitro
And the Litle 250 with five blades rotorhead flying first time in windy day

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01-26-2012 11:33 PM  5 years agoPost 33
tintmaster

rrKey Veteran

Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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Fenestron tail

Man that is awesome. I just came across your post. Now I am thinking of doing that with my 450 Pro.

So have you got all the bugs out yet? And I see you have the tail motor and ESC hooked to a 401 gyro. Does the 401 only work the tail motor? And how did you hook up tail servo? Sorry for the stupid questions, but thats the only way to find out. Thanks, Eugene

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Fenestron tail don't hold ?...NOW HOLD !
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