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HelicopterJR Heli Vibe 90/50, Sylphide 90, GSR260 › Sylphide E12 - My build pics
04-08-2011 07:41 PM  6 years agoPost 101
sks

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london

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heliFX's correct about the pulleys.. they're metal. I thought they were plastics as they look like. I poked it with a dental pick to see if it would sink in... nope.
that's a shame, because the K&S ones (like the stock ones) can break on you. It's basically a central piece with two sides punched on and I had one of the sides break off. At least these won't be eating belt teeth.

Hirobo uses plastic pulleys on their high end machines.

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04-08-2011 09:57 PM  6 years agoPost 102
heliFX

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Toronto, Canada

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no! its not built like the K&S. JR pulley is one piece machined.
its made of similar material only.

with the K&S you needed to glue/epoxy the pulley to the shaft and to itself to prevent it from breaking which could have cause premature failure of the sides breaking off during flight or the side wall tolerance where made too thin ???.

I believe K&S has or had two pulley designs.
One was anodized gold and the other red (aluminum)
I think JR has gold upgrade for Nitro (SY)

Have look at JR catalog (Japanese version) to confirm the pulley.

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04-08-2011 10:57 PM  6 years agoPost 103
sks

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london

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no! its not built like the K&S. JR pulley is one piece machined.
not possible for reasons that are not apparent to you: I don't have the words to describe, but I'll try. To get a drill bit down to cad/cam into a one piece block of metal creates problems not being able to get totally perfect corners, there will be rounded corners because of the drill bit circular machining. This will make it unsuitable for the belt teeth because the edges of the teeth will come into contact with this rounded excess that should not be there.

Anyway, the JR stock pulley is also 3 piece if you look at it carefully, and it is constructed in the same way. I should know, I have both, including the gold K&S one as well.

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04-09-2011 02:32 AM  6 years agoPost 104
heliFX

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yup I took a closer look seems like it may infact be two piece or more.
at first glance they sure made it seem it was one piece.

now inspecting closer I'm not even sure if its just a press fit.
I did notice each side of the pulley wheel has notches of some sort pinning it to the shaft.

well my guess and observation is the K&S seems like its better built.
outer walls that are prone to breaking are thicker.
perhaps even a harder aluminum.

one thing to take note if your using the original tail plates aka SY-90 nitro tail assembly ---I never used the last collet and screw on the tail that holds the two halves together.
I always left this off to keep the tail weight down.

sks

based on your experience with the pulley have you noticed how soon the pulley starts to break down -- 50 flights 100 flights ?
or is it pretty random

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04-09-2011 10:52 AM  6 years agoPost 105
sks

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london

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first things first: as anyone of you will take the time to observe, in operation the belt moves to one side on the pulley because of the way of rotation and also because there's a 90 degree lateral twist from tail gearbox to the pulley in the body. So that side is rubbed against and will be the side that loosens.

the notches you mention are for compressing out the metal to force press on the side plate, and it's them who fail over time. There should be 3 notches (or rather stamp marks if you know what I mean). I also think it is glued as well.

Mine failed at the body end and not the gearbox end, must have been over 100 flights. The present pair are fine, and they must have been through over 200. But it's just silly that something like this happens on a machine this expensive.

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04-18-2011 11:18 PM  6 years agoPost 106
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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heliFx & sks,

Thanks for bringing up the problems with the belt pulleys. Hopefully JR would take notice and do some improvements. I'll keep a watchfull eye on the pulley and hopefully will catch it before something bad happens or maybe i'll just replace it after a certain number of hours.

Regards
John

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04-19-2011 01:06 AM  6 years agoPost 107
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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Next step is doing the links. I could not thread the wire yet for the gyro because I wanted to see where to route it after all the links are in place.

Always I find it hard to level the swashplate just by eyeballing.
Now these three pins here made my life easier.

There are leveling holes in the aileron and elevator arms that would line up to the carbon frames just insert these pins through and through to the other side and wahlah! the arms are in their zero pitch position.

Now that the arms are set, I installed the link rods to the corresponding arms and looked for a servo wheel that would create a 90 degree position between the link rods and the two metal balls on each of the servo wheels. All the subtrims on my radio for the cyclic remained at zero after this set up and the swash plate levelled.

Also did the tail servo link rod.

Now I can mount the gyro (to the gyro mounting plate) and route its wire to the amp.

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04-19-2011 01:31 AM  6 years agoPost 108
sks

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london

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There are levelling holes in the aileron and elevator arms that would line up to the carbon frames just insert these pins through and through to the other side and wahlah! the arms are in their zero pitch position.
I'll tell you something funny: I had ideas of using leveling pins some time ago, and I guessed that the reasons it was not implemented was because the manufacturer's just couldn't be bothered. I first saw it used in the Hirobo SDX. Eventually the other models have it.

My only objection on JR's servo end is you have fixed hole servo discs. The reason Futaba have blank discs is so that you can pin point the hole precisely. I assume that the discrepancy in manufacture of servos means that they can never share the precise same centering position.

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04-19-2011 01:50 AM  6 years agoPost 109
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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Next is doing the flybar cage and mounting the flybar.

I decided to glue the tail boom support rod and its mounting ends. I'll have enough drying time before I get back into it.

Now that I have all the wires attached to the receiver and gyro amp, I can finish "modifying" the battery tray.

Underneath the battery tray:

--PAUSE-- tomorrow I'll post tail rotor assembly and hopefully more.

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04-19-2011 02:03 AM  6 years agoPost 110
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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sks,

Good thing that I have a lot of JR servo wheels..luckily I found the right ones. If I didn't I would have made a new holes on the wheels. I do it by butting the two servo wheels, face to face, use longer screws to mount them at the same time on the servo and marking the new holes.

Regards
John

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04-19-2011 02:08 AM  6 years agoPost 111
heliFX

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Toronto, Canada

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It be interesting to see once all the linkage in place if we still have a lot play with the bell/hiller washout mixing arms/hub assembly.
I've noticed this on a newer JR models plus the hub prone to quickly wearing out -- hence why K&S and VJ offer duralumin upgrade

also tail rotor control arm and pin contact has almost a degree of play as well.

for the price for these kits JR should really look to improve that.

original SY-90 nitro had better tolerances.

Johnny it be great if you check this out once your done :-)

I noticed on my AS90-E12.

VJ product suggest to glue pins in place via drilling 1.5 mm hole on the arms.

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04-19-2011 11:09 AM  6 years agoPost 112
mdu6

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Montreal

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It be interesting to see once all the linkage in place if we still have a lot play with the bell/hiller washout mixing arms/hub assembly.
I've noticed this on a newer JR models plus the hub prone to quickly
Strange - More then 500 flights on my 90SG and almost no play there
also tail rotor control arm and pin contact has almost a degree of play as well.
Make sure you have driven the 2 pivot bolts as far down as possible -hardly any play on mine.
VJ product suggest to glue pins in place via drilling 1.5 mm hole on the arms.
I suggested to Mr. Kobayashi to simply use loctite on the pins. Much simpler and quicker to do.

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04-19-2011 05:07 PM  6 years agoPost 113
heliFX

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Toronto, Canada

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mdu6

I wonder if its only certain models or batch have this issue.
Its definitely there on mine and read others who have similar play.
the washout arms part number on 90SG is different then AS90-E12.
not sure why ... maybe Johnny can verify on the new SYE12 if its visible on that kit.

I'll try the loctite not to keen on drill holes and glue.
if went that route I would tap and use a small gurb screw instead.

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04-19-2011 07:03 PM  6 years agoPost 114
sks

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london

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to be honest with you all I find it hit and miss too. The old Sylphide nitro tail pitch mechanism is a case in point: some have theirs falling to pieces, and others never had a problem. My flybar carrier on the old NHR-03 head always developed play over time.

You never see any of these issues on Hirobo high end helis because they are designed right and built to a high tolerance - sorry to have to say.

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04-19-2011 07:29 PM  6 years agoPost 115
heliFX

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Toronto, Canada

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well guide pins tolerance that slides tail pitch arm seems a little on the short side which is introducing a slop when moving the tail blades side to side by hand. Its almost half a degree to a degree movement

funny enough notice on ITO japan pilot of a photo of his tail had a second pin drilled and tapped ----

I would agree perhaps quality control my be sliding a little.

most of these short comings can be fixed but I say why should I after forking this type cash for machine which boost quality.

sorry for being picky but there not cheap machines.

Perhaps this new kit Johnny is building may in fact have some of these things fix or not present at all.

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04-19-2011 11:40 PM  6 years agoPost 116
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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heliFx,
It be interesting to see once all the linkage in place if we still have a lot play with the bell/hiller washout mixing arms/hub assembly.
Maybe it's a hit and miss.. mine doesn't have a play.
but
also tail rotor control arm and pin contact has almost a degree of play as well.
I did notice tiny bit of play.. I held each part to see where it's coming from and it seems to be from the pins which hold the control arms. Is it because the arms are plastic and the other part (red) is metal?

Both of my SGs doesn't have the play.. they're plastic. As you can see, the arms are upright and looks stiff but they are moving fine without binding.

Does Hirobo have it in metal or platics? Anybody? Just curious.

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04-20-2011 12:08 AM  6 years agoPost 117
heliFX

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Toronto, Canada

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thanks for checking Johnny,

it seems based on the photo of the SY-E12 washout mixer at least the plastic holder is a different material and color (grey).
the earlier kits they are black plastic.

i suppose they may have improved it.

those holding pins are the cause of the play in the tail.
I have 6 those tiny pins and found 2 that had a nice fit.

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04-20-2011 12:16 AM  6 years agoPost 118
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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Now.. the tail rotor assembly. I assemble the tail gear/pulley case first without the belt yet just to see how many shims/washers - Poly Sliders I would need until there is no side play on the tail shaft. I used 3 out of 4. After that I just continued building.

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04-20-2011 01:00 AM  6 years agoPost 119
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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Attaching the tail part to the body.

There are also stickers (plain white) that goes underneath the horizontal tail fin, same shape as the top sticker.

--PAUSE--

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04-22-2011 03:22 PM  6 years agoPost 120
johnnytango

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Toronto, Canada

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Long tail link rod. They are carbon fiber rod. I'm a little unsure of it, but spoke with flyJR and said he himself and his FAI buddies (France) are using the stock tail link carbon rod . I believe this heli has a longer tail than the Sylphide IC (I have to research) so I have to look for a longer metal rod if I wanted it. Anyway.. no time to look for one so I just used it.

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HelicopterJR Heli Vibe 90/50, Sylphide 90, GSR260 › Sylphide E12 - My build pics
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