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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video Docs  AceOne Owners UNITE!
04-09-2011 03:58 PM  6 years agoPost 81
blbills

rrKey Veteran

Provo, UT

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I'm sorry guys I don't intent for this thread to become a FL/FBL pissing match.

Just stating my humble opinion after using the other FBL systems out there for 3+ years (on top of the 10+ years FB)
Im totally on the opposite end with flybarless; mine flies so well in manual its not funny. Its extremely smooth and predictable.
webdr,
When you say this what are you comparing it too? Is this your first FBL setup?

Brian

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04-09-2011 04:09 PM  6 years agoPost 82
webdr

rrApprentice

Atlanta GA

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it shouldnt matter if its my 1st or 50th, it flies great, hands off hold position if there isnt any wind to make it drift.
Im telling ya man, its all in your setup of the perameters. I spent months dialing it in.
post up your settings on fbl and Ill see if I can help.

BarryB,
look at it from this angle: 3 or 4 people have said they cant fix the sideways drift, so does that make it 100% product error and not user error? We can debate it but theres no set in stone ruling that there is a problem that cant be tuned out with adjusting the multitude of perameters available in the AUTO menu.
I adjusted HFG, LFG, and IDR and it flies straight as an arrow. The problem didnt happen until I updated to the latest firmware. Never drifted sideways in forward flight in the months Ive been using it up to the latest firmware. Once I saw the side drift, I adjusted and it stopped.
Im not lying to you, believe me. I have my own set of problems with the AceOne, but the side drift aint one of them, neither is flybarless performance.
Matt

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04-09-2011 05:46 PM  6 years agoPost 83
Wayne Mann

rrVeteran

United States of America

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Hi guys,

Robert, for video reasons that I won't go into (classified) flybarless rotor heads are 1000 times superior to a head with a flybar if the flybarless control system is working correctly. The V-bar and the Futaba GY 750 are great FBL systems, but they basically just replace the flybar, they are worse in a hover than a flybar, but they are superior to a flybar in forward flight. The FLB systems still need an auto pilot system with IMUs and GPS to be a viable option to a flybar in most cases.

Other than the compass heading issue my model hovers fine "relatively" in manual mode FBL. I have just not spent any time in the last three weeks (horribly windy conditions for tuning) tuning the Attitude and Auto mode. I am going out today and get started though as we have great weather for the next few days. I am going to rotate the compass some and I will report back my findings.

Wayne Mann

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04-09-2011 11:00 PM  6 years agoPost 84
Vortex Aerial

rrVeteran

Riverside Ca

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Guys mine does not do the full collective thing when at full stick travel. (very latest firmware and software)
Perhaps it was the way it was set up in the Ace Assistant.

When doing the Tx Calibration i set all the curves to 100-0-100.
After calibration is finished its put back to the curves used to fly. 85% being 11 degrees, and then "center stick" is programmed for failsafe. (which will be fully flight tested next week)

Webdr:
Those last set of numbers you gave worked really well. Can now hover 90 degrees to 12-14MPH wind and it holds position really well ! (albiet pitching and rolling the whole time)

Any further tuning numbers would be greatly appreciated.

Westwind2:
You guys have really come a long way with the product. Glad you stuck with it as the product is really coming along.
The sales slogan really give you something to shoot for

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04-09-2011 11:03 PM  6 years agoPost 85
webdr

rrApprentice

Atlanta GA

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great, Im glad they are working. As for the pitching and rolling...is it slow pitch and roll? Or fast twitching trying to compensate for the wind variation hitting the heli?

Slow pitch and roll: increase low frequency gain slightly till it stops.

Twitchiness: decrease high frequency gain, like 5 points at a time till it subsides. There will always be a little (with current firmware) but you can decrease it.

Also, you say the latest update...you talking about the last one? Or a new one today?
matt

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04-09-2011 11:19 PM  6 years agoPost 86
Vortex Aerial

rrVeteran

Riverside Ca

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Dont know of a new one today, think it was dated March 15th.

Ill try reducing the HFG as it looks like its trying to compensate for changes in the wind speed.

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04-10-2011 12:52 PM  6 years agoPost 87
UAVProducts

rrApprentice

Mchigan, USA

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Robert, for video reasons that I won't go into (classified) flybarless rotor heads are 1000 times superior to a head with a flybar if the flybarless control system is working correctly
Well, I wonder why someone as highly regarded as Tabb still uses flybars. Of course, many more professionals that don't post here on the forums also swear by flybars.

To each their own.

Robert
N.A. Dist for DJI
N.A. Dist. for PhotoHigher
Formerly DJIUSA

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04-10-2011 03:04 PM  6 years agoPost 88
Wayne Mann

rrVeteran

United States of America

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Hi Robert,

Quote "Well, I wonder why someone as highly regarded as Tabb still uses flybars." He doesn't. I doubt that he has a single machine left that has a flybar in it. Sorry Tabb, it is for the greater good. We have both discovered some things that have pretty much killed flybars for aerial video use...forever. Anyone who is still useing a flybar has either decided not to jump into the water yet due to the unknowns, the lack of motivation to go through a new learning cuve or they are waiting for systems like the Ace One to be completely sorted out. But, they will all join in eventually.

Wayne Mann

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04-10-2011 03:09 PM  6 years agoPost 89
webdr

rrApprentice

Atlanta GA

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gents, lets reserve the flybar vs flybarless discussion for another thread. We are doing very well so far in this thread. Thanks

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04-10-2011 03:19 PM  6 years agoPost 90
Colin Guinn

rrApprentice

Austin, TX USA

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How about I'll trade you a video of my AceOne stabilizing my camera (fast movement and slow) for your super secret reason for why FBL is superior for video

That way we'll still be talking about the AceOne...trying to stay on topic...but I really want to know the reason

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04-10-2011 04:29 PM  6 years agoPost 91
UAVProducts

rrApprentice

Mchigan, USA

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Wayne,

I graciously concede.

Back to the topic.

Robert
N.A. Dist for DJI
N.A. Dist. for PhotoHigher
Formerly DJIUSA

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04-10-2011 04:45 PM  6 years agoPost 92
Wayne Mann

rrVeteran

United States of America

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Hi guys,

My reply to Robert and the brief flybar verses flybarless discussion IS on topic as DJI is listening (reading) this thread and I want to make sure that they understand that the flybarless side of the Ace One as well as the gimbol stabilization side is hugely important to the long term success of this product, especially for high end aerial video use.

As for our reasons for abandoning the flybar that will remain classified for now. There are a lot of things that we will share and help with, but there are also some trade secrets. Afterall this is a business and it is just not a good idea to give away the farm, so to speak.

Wayne Mann

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04-10-2011 04:47 PM  6 years agoPost 93
Colin Guinn

rrApprentice

Austin, TX USA

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Okay, here is a video of the AceOne stabilizing my AV200 camera gimbal. The gains are set correctly (when I move slowly the camera stays pointed very straight), but when I move quickly (like my Heli does in Windy conditions) the roll axis can't keep up at all. I have all Savox high speed / high voltage servos on the gimbal...I think they are like .09 seconds with ~300 inoz of torque, so the roll shouldn't have a problem keeping up.

Maybe they have it programmed that way to prevent it from looking twitching when there are slight movements around center while in flight??

Watch at YouTube

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04-10-2011 05:09 PM  6 years agoPost 94
Wayne Mann

rrVeteran

United States of America

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Hi Colin,

Thanks for posting the video. This is exactly what I have been describing. What pot are you using on the roll axis servo? Is it a 1 turn, three turn or what? As I described in an earlier post I have tried serval different pots and the Futaba pot worked the best, but the servo was still way too slow. The more turns the pot has the slower the pot is at moving off of center. Also what is the gear ratio on roll axis on that mount?

Thanks

Wayne Mann

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04-10-2011 05:30 PM  6 years agoPost 95
Vortex Aerial

rrVeteran

Riverside Ca

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Colin;
Thanks very much for posting that.
If you yaw or swing the heli side to side, do you get a vector reaction in the roll or tilt?

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04-10-2011 08:28 PM  6 years agoPost 96
Colin Guinn

rrApprentice

Austin, TX USA

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Wayne,

I'm trying to figure out the answers to your questions. I know the standard Pot Kim uses on the AV200 is a 10 turn. But I'm not sure if he used the Pot out of this Savox servo or his standard one when he built this Gimbal (I had him put the High Voltage servos in). Also, not sure the exact gear ratio on the roll axis...I just emailed Kim to find answers to both of these questions.

These are the servos I'm using on all three axis

Vortex,

I just tried, and if I manually yaw the heli there is no movement on the roll or tilt axis...is that what you were asking?

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04-10-2011 08:41 PM  6 years agoPost 97
Vortex Aerial

rrVeteran

Riverside Ca

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I just tried, and if I manually yaw the heli there is no movement on the roll or tilt axis...is that what you were asking?
Yes thanks for that.

Can you tell me how far (in inches) your Ace One IMU is from the main shaft on the heli ?

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04-10-2011 09:01 PM  6 years agoPost 98
Wayne Mann

rrVeteran

United States of America

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Chris,

I have not had any issues with roll axis when panning the helicopter. The horizon stays very level unless it is windy out.

Wayne

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04-11-2011 12:18 AM  6 years agoPost 99
Wayne Mann

rrVeteran

United States of America

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Hi guys,

Great weather today so I have been out tunning the Ace One for flybarless operation. My compass had to be rotated 4.5 degrees clockwise (as viewed from above) for perfectly straight flight. I have the model flying as well as the Futaba GY 750 in manual mode. Very happy with that. However I am not happy with the new software for Attitude Mode. DJI, westwind2, Attitude Mode was perfect in the previous software version for doing aerial video. You could just ease forward on the cyclic and get the model flying forward at 20 to 30 mph or whatever and let go of the cyclic stick and the model would just keep cruising in a straight line. The model also felt very linear leaving a hover and when returning to a hover, much like a very well set up F3C contest machine. Now with the new software you basically have 2 Auto Modes and who needs two Auto Modes? It is nice that the model will hover itself in Attitude mode, but the model is real touchy on cyclics around center. You have to keep holding forward cyclic to keep the model flying forward and if you let up on forward cyclic the model will just come to a stop and hover. Please change Attitude Mode back to the way it was in the previous software version or make that a selectable option.

Thanks for listening

Wayne Mann

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04-11-2011 12:41 AM  6 years agoPost 100
UAVProducts

rrApprentice

Mchigan, USA

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New firmware will have software selected Two Attitude and Two Auto modes.

My latest request is to have the three way switch set so we can have one setting for locked in hover for panos and AP and the other switch setting for a looser setting for video etc...

Its only going to get better.

Wayne,

Sorry I missed your call. Heading home from vacation and took a week off from the phone calls.

I'll talk more to them about the camera stabilization etc.

Robert
N.A. Dist for DJI
N.A. Dist. for PhotoHigher
Formerly DJIUSA

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