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Logo 600 › I got this Big Issues about this Logo 600​Parts....
02-18-2011 05:31 PM  6 years agoPost 21
rnkasp

rrApprentice

Pottstown, PA USA

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Smacka, I've been wrong before. Give me some slack though as we all cannot be "Rocket Scientists". Just out of curiousity, did you conduct a
metallurgical analysis
on the broken part and if so what were your findings.

By the way thanks for the PM. Sounds like someone has a complex.

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02-18-2011 05:43 PM  6 years agoPost 22
Smacka

rrApprentice

PA

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By the way thanks for the PM. Sounds like someone has a complex
The "complex" as you refer to it has been the result of day after day after day of RR people bashing me on a personal level...so much so that my wife had to step in and put a stop to the nonsense the other day, right MMC205?

I did not have to conduct a metallurgical analysis on MY particular failure because I broke the collar off in my hand while I was over torquing the crap out of it. I did, however, (for chits and grins) put the part in an SEM and had a look. Classic brittle break with little to no ductile necking at the fracture face.

Again, since Logostoy gave zero information on the failure, any thoughts on the failure were speculation only. Mine was a direct result of brain fade...

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02-18-2011 05:59 PM  6 years agoPost 23
rnkasp

rrApprentice

Pottstown, PA USA

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Not trying to bash just trying to state (in my opinion) that most guys are looking for a "yes/no" or "I've tried this/I've experienced that" type of answer. Real hands on experience (not saying that you don't have it). Text book stats and theories really are of little interest (again, my opinion) to most guys that just want to fix the problem and get back up in the air.

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02-18-2011 06:01 PM  6 years agoPost 24
Logotoys600

rrApprentice

N,Cali

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Sorry Smacka..this collar cost me 1​Crash...2nd Almost!!!!

I did not check it when I have so many flight. I didn't know I have a little cracked on it., and it when all the way my heli just drop ..maybe some people are right about overtightened it or.. Is a Bad engineer on it the metal is so thin from the inside..

Anyway Im gonna Upraded to better one....

DONT CARE WHAT BRAND IS IT.....JUST WANNA LEARN TO FLY

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02-18-2011 06:01 PM  6 years agoPost 25
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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Guess that is the difference between a "Masters" and 37-year "Bachelor of Science".

Not really. A good engineer will use
-the sum of his experience in the field (i've broken heli parts by over tightening them myself, and been aware of this particular failure by other RR members as well as friends),

-any available new data (this person broke two in a row, same fracture spot, lending yet more credibility to the over tightening scenario, and not just a manufacturing error)

-and good plain common sense (the fracture was brittle in nature, this is easily seen even by these picture, this is taught in metallurgy and/or failure mechanics 101)

and make the best analysis he/she can given the information. A engineer MUST do this, as all the evidence is never present, and the cost/time to gather rather extraneous evidence adds up to spending $20,000 worth of analysis on a collar which anyone familiar with the product/item will tell you from experience that it very likely broke from overtightening.

Lets use another example. my car tire is flat. i look it over quickly. there seems to be a nail sticking out of it. but wait, maybe it was the Acceptable parts per million failure rate in the automotive industry is 4-PPM (a 1.33 cpk value). So, is this part one of the 4 in a million that is KNOWN to ship faulty?
and it wasn't the nail, it was a coincidence. maybe it was corrosion on the wheel bead, maybe we should dissect the tire to figure it out for sure, so a detailed analysis.

but maybe, just maybe IT WAS THE NAIL!!

I, and i believe many others, enjoy the mikado forum because of the straightforward, succinct, knowledge gained from personal experience, information you see here. talking about 4-ppm failure rate (which i've seen you mention no less than 3 or 4 times in as many topics, is nice an all, but an answer like mr mels is work 1000 of yours.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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02-18-2011 06:25 PM  6 years agoPost 26
g_dmitry

rrApprentice

Edmonton, AB, Canada

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General observation:

Degree does not guarantee that degree holder is smart.

Many genius and many smartest people on the Planet do not have any degree. Many of the even failed to pass University exams. Just because they think in different way (that what helps them to invent new things).

Most of the engineers I know (I know quite few of them btw) do not know how to use a hammer.

The bottom line: Few latest posts about engineering degrees looks childish.

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02-18-2011 06:28 PM  6 years agoPost 27
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The bottom line: Few latest posts about engineering degrees looks childish.

agreed, mine was obviously in jest as it was posted in identical styling to smacka's

for whatever reason, in most of his posts, he feels it necessary to say he's a aeronutical engineer....

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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02-18-2011 06:30 PM  6 years agoPost 28
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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and owww, gdimitri, burn!
Most of the engineers I know (I know quite few of them btw) do not know how to use a hammer.

I know how to use one. okay.. i at least know what they look like.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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02-18-2011 07:29 PM  6 years agoPost 29
Smacka

rrApprentice

PA

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g_dmitry
I agree with your statement with respect to "degrees" do not need to enter into the conversation. Allow me to explain why I have been adding my fields of expertise on a few posts (maybe 4...maybe)...

If you click on my name and view my past posts, you will find post after post whereby people like MMC205 (not just him BUT he likes to follow me around and jump all of posts and turn them into personal jabs...the proof is in his repsonses to me over and over and over again)have stated that (paraphrasing)...I have a back ground in this OR I have a back ground in that...and with this back ground OR that back ground, I am a voice of reason on topic. You would not believe the amount of responses that have admonished me for not supplying empirical evidence for what I post. So, in defense I have started to state here and there when I have a particular back ground on a topic.

Again, my responses are a function of being continuously BEAT DOWN by a select few on these boards. Other posters have complained about the elitist attitude of Logo pilots in this forum. I have dismissed these claims as sour grapes in the past BUT I am starting to see the trend. It is okay for "others" to post opinions, and they are generally accepted as such. I post an opinion and the same 5-7 people bash the crap out of me, screaming for empirical evidence OR do not bother posting your crap.

On another note, these folks can stop going to my profile for inside info on me. I have not updated that since my first post on RR. In fact, I have removed all information so others will stop jumping to conclusions.

Lastly, I will not see some responses because I have started to use the ignore feature. I am tired of the distractions while trying to give and get information that I find useful.

Happy Flying,
Smacka

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02-18-2011 07:45 PM  6 years agoPost 30
g_dmitry

rrApprentice

Edmonton, AB, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sorry for off topic.

To Smacka,

I have been few times in similar situations. I guess I can handle them now much better. Try to avoid/ignore posts where somebody attacks you (I do not talk about this particular situation, just in general). Sometimes it is hard and takes a bit of practice. But if you do not respond to such attacks, attackers will loose their interest in bashing you.

Just tell your opinion. If people want their will hear you.

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02-18-2011 07:47 PM  6 years agoPost 31
Smacka

rrApprentice

PA

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Yes, I apologize for off topic, as well...and this will be the last off topic response...

What you say makes sense... I will try

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02-19-2011 01:36 AM  6 years agoPost 32
PA Heli-Girl

rrNovice

North Central PA

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most guys are looking for a "yes/no" or "I've tried this/I've experienced that" type of answer. Real hands on experience (not saying that you don't have it). Text book stats and theories really are of little interest (again, my opinion) to most guys that just want to fix the problem and get back up in the air.
So what you are suggesting is that people on RR are simple-minded and obtuse. Therefore, everyone must respond with “see Dick run” and “see Spot jump”. God forbid if anyone “dare” to post threads incorporating “Technical Engineering” discussions.

The typical RR response to engineering discussions lately has been nothing more than personal jabs, insults and pee-pee bumping contests. This lack of respect has come from people who, up until this point, are people that I have held at the highest regard.

The bottom line is that you “men”, and I use this term loosely at this point, treat each other like crap on these boards and with the utmost amount of disrespect.

I believe in allowing people to save face. Therefore, I am not going to brow-beat individuals publically on this board. However, very specific people will be receiving PM’s from me, whereby, I will be taking the gloves off. “Jane is really pi$$ed off right now.”

AND… not only do I know how to use a hammer… I have one in my R/C tool box and use it effectively!!!!!!!

Regards,
Mair

*Flyin' with a purpose*

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02-19-2011 03:26 AM  6 years agoPost 33
NTM

rrVeteran

Lloydminster,​Alberta, Canada

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I think you all are losing focus here.
The part does not in any way need a metallurgical analysis to determine the cause of failure, it's laughable to suggest such a thing.
I've broken over a dozen of the darn things from overtightening, they don't crack in the air, they crack when you're wrenching on them.

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02-19-2011 03:28 AM  6 years agoPost 34
matrosek

rrKey Veteran

Brooklyn

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i never had one broke on me..
just make tight.not over.

Scorpion
Haiyin lipo

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02-19-2011 03:33 AM  6 years agoPost 35
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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Mair, I have no issue with you whatsoever. You've been a nice additon to the RR/mikado forum. Why you might ask? because your are respectful, ask legitimate questions, and don't answer others questions with techno-babble. I don't hold anything against smacka personally, but his way of posting what ends up being long winded, jargon filled replies to posts looking for straight forward information seem to get him harasses. I do not "follow him around" nor target him, but i've grown accustomed ot people on the mikado forum offering experience based, realistic advice that is of the most helpful kind. although i understand the theory of which your husband speaks, its of very little use when detailed knowledge of the topic like many have that post to this forum is quite frankly the most useful, and nowhere close to obtuse. Feel free to keep asking questions Mair, as I and others are more than willing to help you with whatever issues you may have, i'm sure that you've enjoyed the no nonsense, straight forward approach to information that we've given you, and i for one, and i believe many others, only want that in return, and not diatribes about 4-ppm automotive tolerance rates when it does not apply very directly to our fine hobby.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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02-19-2011 03:35 AM  6 years agoPost 36
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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I think you all are losing focus here.
The part does not in any way need a metallurgical analysis to determine the cause of failure, it's laughable to suggest such a thing.
I've broken over a dozen of the darn things from overtightening, they don't crack in the air, they crack when you're wrenching on them.

yup, thanks ntm. nice and simple

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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02-19-2011 04:36 AM  6 years agoPost 37
PA Heli-Girl

rrNovice

North Central PA

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mmc205

Oh! So there is a number of character post limit on the Mikado forum. You must answer all questions in 7 words or less. You must rely on the EXPERTS and their 7 word sentence. There is no room on this forum for technical discussions and debates. I get it NOW. Didn’t realize until NOW.

This isn’t about Smacka. He’s just the straw that broke the camel’s back. There are RR members all over the boards that get lambasted by ‘wannabe’ experts that feel they’ve accrued enough “RR minutes” over the months/years that they somehow get to mandate how information is shared on this board. Just because you’ve been accustom to seeing information in a “certain way”, doesn’t mean it’s the only way, forever and ever, Amen.

The fact that you responded to my respectful Personal Message on this public board is disappointing to say the least. If you ever go to IRCHA, don’t bother finding me for face to face meets and greets.

*Flyin' with a purpose*

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02-19-2011 05:00 AM  6 years agoPost 38
PA Heli-Girl

rrNovice

North Central PA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Oh and one more thing…

i'm sure that you've enjoyed the no nonsense, straight forward approach to information that we've given you, and i for one, and i believe many others, only want that in return, and not diatribes…
There is so much NO NONSENSE going on across this board, that SPONSERED experts have PM’d me with answers to my questions because they didn’t want to stir NONSENSE on these boards. So my point holds true with respect to you men treat each other like crap. This is supposed to be a forum where we can discuss our hobby/passion without worries of harassment.

Y'all come here to avoid your girlfriends, wives and mothers… but you still need guidance on how to behave. *yes, Jane has taken the gloves off*

*Flyin' with a purpose*

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02-19-2011 05:21 AM  6 years agoPost 39
Smacka

rrApprentice

PA

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As Degree engineers, Mair (Masters) and myself (BSME) are more than capable of figuring out things for ourselves (we do all the time) when it comes to issues we run across in our hobby. We CHOOSE to come to Run Ryder to share our experiences and to ask for advice here and there in order to SHARE this wonderful experience with people from all over the world. We do NOT need anyone in these forums to SOLVE issues for US. As engineers, we love to talk tech-no-jock language with other RC geeks.

That said, we certainly do NOT need to ask permission to post on these boards. We do NOT need to be accepted by self righteous/self ordained EXPERTS on these boards. We will NOT allow self righteous infantile “boys” to EDIT or otherwise TELL us how we can OR cannot disseminate information. We WILL continue to use these boards to communicate how WE see fit.

It has become painfully apparent that there is a select few that have elevated their own self worth in these forums, to the point of playing “GOD” for the rest of us. This will NOT be allowed to continue.

A cursory search of the Run Ryder By-Laws allows that any member shall be immune from HARASSMENT at the hands of those who somehow feel they have the RIGHT to play “GOD”, and lord over the rest of us.

If there are any Run Ryder members who dislike the way I carry myself and disseminate information in these forums, please feel free to click on my name, go to the bottom of the page and click “IGNORE”. You will no longer have to read a single word I write…and that IS the ONE simple TRUTH!

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02-19-2011 07:27 AM  6 years agoPost 40
nismoflip

rrVeteran

Union City, CA, USA

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back to the OP.

if I had to guess, it looks like the clamps were over-torqued. it resulted in a large preload on the collar and failed at the thinnest wall section (cavity where bolt head is located). combination of tensile and shear failure on both collars

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