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Rave ENV 700 › Castle HV160 caught fire today during flight....
02-19-2011 01:40 PM  6 years agoPost 81
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Kudos to CYE and CC and best of luck to supercoolheli.

********

"Some" CC haters are extremist by continuing to drive their opinions repeateadly and relentlessly. Kind of remind me of the off topics and politics in here. Informative but fruitless, given that folks will carry out their will at the end regardless of opinions. Not all Ford trucks were great (ie expedition splitting spark plugs) and yet Ford is still around. Hint?

Nothing personal, but some of us need facts. So I must ask based on the need to know as well as comments I read;

What makes kontronic governor better?
Based on what? Ability to hold a head speed constantly? tighter rpms? What?? Can anyone point me out to some data/graphs to confirm such?

I've seen hundreds of graphs for CC, so already have references for theirs.

I also read, "better components". Is this information anywhere to be found? As a mouser electronics customer, I can find specs and compare. Just need to know which components to compare against.

FWIW...Hear say does not hold up in court.

Furthermore...
Are kontronic ESC user programmable?
Firmware upgradable via PC?
Has data loggin capabilties?
What is the cost of replacement (if any) had it been the subject of discussion here including shipping to and from germany?

Last few question are on purpose to prove a point of why so many go for CC instead.

Looking forward to "factual" answers.

Have a great flying day!

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-19-2011 02:58 PM  6 years agoPost 82
Sky Dancer

rrVeteran

Bryan, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well said Pete....

Ouch - Kontronik Jive 120+ HV Brushless ESC ($539.99), compared to Castle Creations Phoenix Ice HV 120A ($229.99).

I had no idea those ESC's were that expensive!

Don C

Keep up your rotor speed !

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02-20-2011 05:48 AM  6 years agoPost 83
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Not bashing it's reality, don't act like you don't have affiliation yourself Pete. I have ran tons of castles back since when Joe Ford was the main man to talk to on the firmware updates and all the tweaks. It is not about pumping or bashing a product, it's about telling the people the truth, you may want ratios and a bunch of stuff, but you know as all do it's tough to know exactly how many are sold, only the companies men themselves have those numbers, as well as actual "fire" failures etc. What's happening today in these large CC escs is the same as it was 4 years ago, that is the issue. Sorry but "part of the hobby", oh and "their customer service was great" does not cut losses of thousands of dollars of other equipment. If you see it as bashing that is your problem, I call it the truth if you can't handle it tough deal nothing bothers me more then people getting suckered into BS, that's a fact.

Pete, ask this guy his settings on his CC, would they have mattered??

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t632728p1/

Fact find a Kontronik video of their esc starting on fire from a simple tip over, you will not.

You can search all you want, seems there is one "older" Konny esc fire, in seconds I can find "dozens", maybe "hundreds" of CC fire threads, pics vids, from 4 years ago and (still) today.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-20-2011 05:49 AM  6 years agoPost 84
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well said Pete....

Ouch - Kontronik Jive 120+ HV Brushless ESC ($539.99), compared to Castle Creations Phoenix Ice HV 120A ($229.99).

I had no idea those ESC's were that expensive!

Don C
For one they have a HIGH QUALITY BEC built in (fact), & more importantly,,

that 300 bucks difference would have saved Eric thousands in cash and hours of building and frustration, simple math here..

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-20-2011 09:42 AM  6 years agoPost 85
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You cant guarantee a ESC WILL fail Shawn. Ya gotta admit, some of em go pretty hard, and last.

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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02-20-2011 02:28 PM  6 years agoPost 86
Iwannafly1

rrNovice

Dover, Delaware, US

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Sad story indeed however it's sounds like your in good hands with CYE and CC

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02-20-2011 04:49 PM  6 years agoPost 87
NTM

rrVeteran

Lloydminster,​Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Wow, certainly not heresay on the kontronik vs. castle thing.
Even the noobiest noob can immediately tell the difference in the governor performance. Graphs really aren't necessary, it's that big of a difference.
I've owned over two dozen castle esc's, and lost six to failures. Two involved fire.

This logo of mine had it's lipo punctured by the pinion gear, when the battery retaining strap broke in flight. The fire that resulted was quite large.
Despite a melted case, the kontronik jive 80LV was simply moved to a new heli and worked perfectly

Morale of the story, castle starts fires, kontronik jive survives them.

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02-20-2011 04:52 PM  6 years agoPost 88
Supercoolheli

rrKey Veteran

Stillwater, Oklahoma

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also, the electronics look like they will be fine also . The motor looks good-as-new now after some cleaning off, and with some work of the air compressor, and the batteries were fine with some wiping off. The Total-G had some discoloration on the case but after some wiping off, it's not melted in any way, and it was recognized by the computer so that's a great sign! The servos were also cleaned off and are now shiny, but the wires were burned and toasted. My dad read about how servos can be saved by replacing the wires and with his awesome soldering skills, he was able to replace them so that the servos look like they'll be perfect . The satelite recievers should also be ready to go with some new wires (although those might be alright as they are). More inspection will be done once the rebuild is underway

Eric Olson:
Team SAB USA
Team Pulse Ultra

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02-20-2011 08:44 PM  6 years agoPost 89
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What kinda tests did ya do on the motor ?. If there is a fault in the motor, the new esc wont last long

Cheers buddy, glad to see your on the way back!

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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02-20-2011 09:14 PM  6 years agoPost 90
Supercoolheli

rrKey Veteran

Stillwater, Oklahoma

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i havn't tested the motor yet. I havn't tested the servos or Total-G yet either but i was just saying that as of now, it looks as if they'll survive. No telling for sure yet though

Eric Olson:
Team SAB USA
Team Pulse Ultra

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02-20-2011 09:30 PM  6 years agoPost 91
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

By any chance have ya popped the bell off the motor housing, and if ya do could ya post some pixs for us ?

You know how all the wires in the motor have that clear protective covering over the, well that can melt and wick between the individual wires. Without the insulation on the wire, it would obviously be arc city.

Id look for any wires that are scratched, nicked, look like they are rubbing, and for clear wick between the wires. You should be able to wiggle a tiny bit, individual wires. They should not be stuck together.

If ya find the majority of them are, there is an exellent chance that some of the wires may be contacting/shorting.

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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02-20-2011 10:05 PM  6 years agoPost 92
Supercoolheli

rrKey Veteran

Stillwater, Oklahoma

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we did check the wires, and they all still have the coating on them and have no sign of damage at all. At the moment it's all put together but i'll try to get some pictures later today with the case off

Eric Olson:
Team SAB USA
Team Pulse Ultra

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02-21-2011 01:11 PM  6 years agoPost 93
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

don't act like you don't have affiliation yourself Pete
I have as much affiliation with CC as I do with Kontronic as I use their Tango. A wash? No public stock, no vested interest.
Fact find a Kontronik video of their esc starting on fire from a simple tip over, you will not.
Find me a Kontronic I can disabled current limit and that same pilot and your tone will change. Did you check his other videos?
I've owned over two dozen castle esc's, and lost six to failures. Two involved fire.
Under what firmware versions?
What settings?
Did you have current limits disabled on the two involving fire?

Graphs and facts...its what its all about in order to get to the bottom line as it separates hear say from actual data.

So you still have half a dozen working or did you dump them in here to some noobs.
This logo of mine had it's lipo punctured by the pinion gear, when the battery retaining strap broke in flight. The fire that resulted was quite large.
Despite a melted case, the kontronik jive 80LV was simply moved to a new heli and worked perfectly

Had it been a castle with current limit set to insensitive, probably same results for sure. But you and I wont know.
Morale of the story, castle starts fires, kontronik jive survives them.
Bad mikado straps and the pinion started your last fire and not a castle product. What breaks a strap? shard edges. Might want to check on that.

Morale of the story: No need to bash all mikado product line just because of a crappy strap and or bad design. I know they dont make their straps, just making a point.

Boy, its going to be in the 70's today!

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-21-2011 03:26 PM  6 years agoPost 94
merlin3

rrKey Veteran

dayton, ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

are you saying that disabling the current protection is whats causing the problems to castle escs?

Justin - Team Horizon, Team Byron
2-700x, Trex 700n, small helis

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02-21-2011 03:53 PM  6 years agoPost 95
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

NO, not saying it is the definite factor, just pointing to a possibility or a common denominator.

If you dont know what peaks your system is putting out, given your flying style, and you disable this function while "testing", you do so at a high risk. But to be surprised of potential results...well, what can I say?

I do feel sorry to see a heli crash and worst burn, but sometimes just not surprised at all.

If those that are burning them up are willing or able to share their settings and or graphs, perhaps as a community, we can find the "common denominator". Facts speak volume unlike hear say.

Im just trying to gather information without stepping on anyone sensitive toes and its not easy task given weather lately. NO one likes to be told its their fault...IF that is the case.

Did I mention its around 70's?

Time for a bike ride with granson.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-21-2011 04:04 PM  6 years agoPost 96
merlin3

rrKey Veteran

dayton, ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It coule be a factor but I know of a few that have caught fire and all that was happening was hovering or something else drawing very little current.

Justin - Team Horizon, Team Byron
2-700x, Trex 700n, small helis

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02-21-2011 04:07 PM  6 years agoPost 97
Supercoolheli

rrKey Veteran

Stillwater, Oklahoma

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yeah that's what happened with mine. I can see how it'd be easy if you were pushing it too hard and going over the abilities of the ESC, but mine was also just a 30 second hover

Eric Olson:
Team SAB USA
Team Pulse Ultra

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02-21-2011 04:23 PM  6 years agoPost 98
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Indeed does not seem to be the case with you guys.

The fact that they work for some and not others, makes it interesting to me, thus the quest continues.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-21-2011 05:29 PM  6 years agoPost 99
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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It's not settings issues, it's hardware

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-21-2011 05:30 PM  6 years agoPost 100
Supercoolheli

rrKey Veteran

Stillwater, Oklahoma

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

what do you say about pilots like Kyle, Nick, Jamie, Curtis, ect, ect, that fly their products professionally?

Eric Olson:
Team SAB USA
Team Pulse Ultra

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Rave ENV 700 › Castle HV160 caught fire today during flight....
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