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01-15-2011 06:26 PM  7 years agoPost 1
mikmerl

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Athens, Greece

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[B]I noticed that the tail drive tube on my Bell 47g II was not running true and assumed that it may be the source of a vibration that is evident on the helicopter.
I ordered two new ones and was dissapointed a to find when they arrived that both the new tubes were slightly bent (to a degree that I decided not to use them).
They were well packaged in a stout box and taped to a thick wooden dowel, so I don’t believe that this occurred during transport.

Do the leave the factory that way?

What if any is the run out tolerance that is acceptable for these torque tubes?

If they do not run perfectly (axially) true in flight can they be a source of vibration?

mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

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01-15-2011 08:14 PM  7 years agoPost 2
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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What brand is the machine and how many and how far apart are the drive tube supports ? ALSO, if they are not running true thay will cause bad vibes. Are they aluminum ,stainless ,or what materials ? WP

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01-15-2011 08:20 PM  7 years agoPost 3
payne1967

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uk

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apart from using my hirobo bell 47g colour scheme it looks nice
the finishing touches would be the rest of the decals

as to the touque tube you will need to have it as straght as possible
if it was wire drive a bit of run out wouldn't matter but the torque tube runing out will give a vibraton

i would contact the dealer you bought the new torque tubes from and let them know they are bent and ask for some replacements

wayne its the vario g2 benzin

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01-15-2011 08:30 PM  7 years agoPost 4
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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After looking closer your machine looks like a Vario and if so PAYNE is correct in that if the tube is bent it will vibrate !! It could vibrate hard enough also to fatigue the silver solder joints or stainless tubing the boom is made from.I definiotely would not continue flying/running it like it is.

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01-15-2011 09:33 PM  7 years agoPost 5
mikmerl

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Athens, Greece

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Gentlemen thank you for your replies.
It’s a Vario Bell 47g II gasser that’s why I placed it in this section.
The torque tube is stainless steel and the spacing is as per the instructions. Fatigue is something that worries me Wayne and that is why I am going over the model again.
It exhibits a vibration (not throughout the whole rpm range) that shakes the top mounted fuel tanks quite a bit. It also does a slight skid hop (dance) when it is spooling up or down at specific rpm range then smooth’s out. I have not attempted to balance any of the other rotating masses such as engine, clutch etc. My other Vario gassers are quite smooth and I cannot understand this vibration.
The blades are balanced (RotorTech) and there is no tracking.

Mr payne this is the helicopter (see attachment) that I am trying to model (they must have copied you as well)

I have included additional photos of my model please let me know what is lacking so that I may bring it up to standard.

Much appreciated,
Mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

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01-15-2011 11:35 PM  7 years agoPost 6
payne1967

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uk

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although you can't see it on the full size in that picture
on the underside of the cabin it has heliswiss in red on the white band
and hb-xae in white on the red section
on the left hand side on the red section at the back side of the door
it has a number 6 with half an x going upwards in white
i'll try and post the picture of it
the other 47 in the pictures is now undergoing a re-scale job into a uk based bell 47

and i was only joking on the colour scheme
it's nice to see another good looking scale model of the heliswiss 47

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01-16-2011 12:59 AM  7 years agoPost 7
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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Looks very similar to my G III Vario. If I were you I woud double check the balance on the blades ,main and tail,as well as make sure the flybar is balanced. How much runout do you have in the tail drive tube ? WP

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01-16-2011 03:46 PM  7 years agoPost 8
Notar

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Taxachussetts

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Mike
If the Heliswiss heli in the pics is your heli, it sure looks like it has a carbon drive shaft, not stainless.
In any case, a common problem with this model is that the two bearing holders are not directly lined up going to the tail rotor section. This will create vibration because of the misalignment.
Joe

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01-16-2011 07:03 PM  7 years agoPost 9
mikmerl

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Athens, Greece

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Hello Joe,
The Heliswiss 47g is my model.
It is running a stainless steel tail torque tube which is visibly out of true and that is why I ordered new ones to replace it. I understand and agree with what you say about alignment of the bearing blocks on this particular model and have tried to get this as true as possible.
My thread was sparked off by the fact that both of the new replacement tubes arrived bent which renders them useless to me (after having waited three weeks to receive them).
My query was does the manufacturer send these absolutely true or is there a degree of bow to some of them? Do I throw them away and order new ones hoping that I will be luckier the second time round?
I have sent a message to the model store asking for his recommendation for a solution.

mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

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01-16-2011 07:17 PM  7 years agoPost 10
mikmerl

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Athens, Greece

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Wayne I saw the videos with your grand large scale Bell 47 and was most impressed with both the build quality of the model and the way it was skillfully flown by you.

I have included a link of mine in flight (second flight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce3fw5PZaqY

My flying is nowhere near as gracefull as yours as I still have quite a bit of adjustment to motor and pitch/throttle curves to be made but first I want to get it flying as mechanically smoothly as I can.

mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

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01-16-2011 10:46 PM  7 years agoPost 11
Stephen Born

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USA

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What a beautiful machine. Is the Vario Heli Company from Germany?

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01-16-2011 11:13 PM  7 years agoPost 12
Notar

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Taxachussetts

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Mike
All tubes will have slight run out in them over a given length for what it is, but not enough to give a vibration if its installed properly. Of course if it has a bend in it you can see, that will not work.
Joe

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01-16-2011 11:22 PM  7 years agoPost 13
mikmerl

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Athens, Greece

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Joe thank you for taking the time to reply to my thread.
I thought that would be the case regarding a bit of runout. I kind of like the idea of a carbon torque tube as you mentioned. Some years ago I flew a Vario Xtreme with a carbon tail drive with good result. Is there a way for me to do this in my Bell 47g II?

mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

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01-16-2011 11:24 PM  7 years agoPost 14
mikmerl

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Athens, Greece

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Arialskycam
Yes a German company called Vario that specializes in large scale gas and turbine powered helicopters. Check out their site I am sure you will be impressed with their product line.

Joe who has posted replies in this thread too will be in position to supply you with all the info you need.

mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

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01-16-2011 11:39 PM  7 years agoPost 15
payne1967

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uk

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you can get the carbon tt for the pod and boom vario's
so i guess if the carbon rod is long enough you can fit one to the 47
but you may need to change the drive and tail gearbox coupling to match the one's you'll need for the carbon rod

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01-17-2011 12:36 AM  7 years agoPost 16
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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There is nothing wrong with the stainless drive shafts ! You need to keep after whomever you bought the other shaft tubing from till you can get a straight piece.Personally I had rather have the stainless tube than carbon as the carbon can split and splinter , I have been running my Vario Be ll 47 G III for two years and have had no problem with the stainless tubing. Good Luck. Wayne

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01-17-2011 12:52 AM  7 years agoPost 17
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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MIKE, You have a very nice looking Bell47 and if you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine you will have many hours of pleasure.Thanks for the kind words about my G III . Wayne

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01-17-2011 03:14 AM  7 years agoPost 18
Notar

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Taxachussetts

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Actually the carbon has been discontinued for some time as a drive shaft. You would have a small tail strike and the carbon tube would unwind, but not break. Without seeing this, you would have a tail rotor issue and not know what it was. Now with SS, its either broken, or good.
Joe

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