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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › It Just Don't Get Any Tackier Than This !!
01-13-2011 08:01 PM  7 years agoPost 41
dilberteinstein

rrNovice

texas - USA

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FBoss
Oh they do have an effect, true not national but an effect all the same. They have an effect on those who may read them. The effects are surely, in some way, completely unintended by the authors. I will not be drawn into a pointless debate with folks that over many months and many posts have never, at least to my own admittedly poor detection skills, proven the ability to truly listen to a contrary opinion...............give it its due value and respect, much less have an opposing opinion effect your rhetoric or opinion. Most of you all write like you know all the facts, got it all down and are way more "on it" than the next guy. As if you were always Right there fore everyone who does not agree is wrong.
A sure way to get exactly NOTHING done. Ya'll are just as bad as congress
.

Our effects are like spitting in the ocean. Sure there are ripples and the level is raised, but our effects are not even measurable. Any national leader can cause war or peace, can change stock markets, can determine course of businesses, and on and on.

I like opposing views with points and counter points. You can call me "as bad as congress" or any other name you chose. It has no effect on me, but for Holder to call Americans "Racist Cowards" is not acceptable in my book.

I do notice you have glossed over Holder's remarks and continue to focus on the "unimportant writers" on this forum.

Obama and his staff do nothing to bring this country together, but you're giving them a free pass because you agree with them? I used a question mark because I don't know. Am I wrong? Should I change that question mark to a period?

Do you agree with Obama and his staff? If not, where do you disagree?

90% of life is "showing up"

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01-13-2011 08:16 PM  7 years agoPost 42
dilberteinstein

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texas - USA

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For you Palin haters, here's some death wishes from the left community that was pulled from YouTube:

http://vimeo.com/18733744

It's time for Obama to step up and stop this nonsense and pull the country together...not the posters on this forum...not the hate mongers on the above video...not the guy on the street.

It's time for Obama to step forward...there is only ONE PRESIDENT and he is it. No more free passes!

90% of life is "showing up"

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01-13-2011 08:24 PM  7 years agoPost 43
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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It's time for Obama to step forward...there is only ONE PRESIDENT and he is it. No more free passes!
Ain't going to happen.

Obama has to be in constant campaign mode.

He is a Chicago style politician and a lefty activist. Always has been. Always will be.

Nuff said.

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01-13-2011 08:33 PM  7 years agoPost 44
dilberteinstein

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texas - USA

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He is a Chicago style politician and a lefty activist. Always has been. Always will be.
You surely know how to kill a moment.

90% of life is "showing up"

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01-13-2011 08:36 PM  7 years agoPost 45
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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You surely know how to kill a moment.
Didn't mean to rain on your parade.

Sorry about that.

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01-13-2011 08:41 PM  7 years agoPost 46
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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I admit that I am at a loss for background on the Holder comment. Nor did I watch the "service" last night.

You asked if I agree with the current administration, I am inclined to think that since I have never made any comment in agreement or support or for that matter in disagreement of any opinion in this thread, what I support or not is not fodder for dissection here.

I will say this, there are many things that I strongly disagree with as well as agree with, concerning the current administration. The same could be said (of me) about the current republican leadership.

What I do want to express and do think applies with posted content is that the extreme polarization of the political and even social conversation has paralyzed this country in many ways. I believe both sides of the coin have exploited this tragedy to attempt to advance their cause. Nothin' new there folks. Same ole same ole, since time began. This is just another example of it.

The problem is that everyone is yelling so dang loud that only THEY are right, that nobody can hear the other. In the day of instant information, the day of twitter, 24hr news, facebook, the internet on and on- NOBODY IS LISTENING NOBODY IS COMMUNICATING. Folks are so entrenched and certain that they know the ONLY path forward that they find themselves, we find ourselves, as a country, going nowhere fast. Its all or nothing ALL the time and thats no way to solve the difficult, important and lasting problems we face.

When there is no willingness to listen, their can be no communication
When there is no mutual respect, the void is filled my mutual contempt
When its all or nothing, by everyone, all the time, its gonna be mostly
NOTHING.

I do not mean to offend you guys, this is a free form, you have your rights to express yourselves BUT

The way things go around here, you guys represent exactly the point I am trying to make. Most of you show no willingness let any argument effect your point of view. You commonly vilify those who are not in agreement with your point of view. Many, in no uncertain terms, disrespect the office of the president and accuse others of the same behavior. Oh I can go on here but I think you all get my point.

Again, I know my post could be construed as a personal attack, I do not intend it to be. Im just trying to point out that you cant always be right and the guy across the hall can not always be wrong. The way forward has aways been compromise and communication is the key to progress.

RIP ROMAN

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01-13-2011 09:09 PM  7 years agoPost 47
dilberteinstein

rrNovice

texas - USA

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FBoss
What I do want to express and do think applies with posted content is that the extreme polarization of the political and even social conversation has paralyzed this country in many ways.
I agree totally with you.

Who do you think is in the best position to lead us out of this? Me? You? How about President Obama?

90% of life is "showing up"

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01-13-2011 09:26 PM  7 years agoPost 48
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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I'll agree in part FBoss. But I have to say this: in everyday life, talking to people in person, talking to people on Facebook etc., I have noticed one very common theme. When I talk to a con (like myself), they tend to be pretty well versed and get their information from many different sources. Myself for example: haven't listened to Rush in almost 20 years. Total viewing/listening time of Hannity and Beck combined: maybe 1/2 hour in the last 2 years. I watch CNN and MSNBC almost every day, if even for a short period of time. The others I know that are conservative are usually the same.
NOW......on the other hand, the LIBERALS I talk to never stray more than 2 feet from their safety zone. Ask most liberals that spew on and on about Rush, Beck, Palin etc., about when was the last time they listened or read anything from those they are complaining about and the answer is usually "well, I've never really even listened to them, because I hate that &*^^% *#$@& **$%%#*er so much"......then stomp away.
It's very rare that I can get into a discussion with a progressive liberal where it doesn't end with myself and every other con in the world, being called a racist, a homophobe, a bible thumper, followed by a slew of nasty names and before you can respond, they stomp away.
I've had this happen with both friends and family. I've been able to almost get their head to explode simply by shaking my head in disagreement.

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01-13-2011 09:26 PM  7 years agoPost 49
dilberteinstein

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texas - USA

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Hey, I have an idea.

Instead of our saying how bad the left or right is, how about we have a civil discussion (point, counterpoint) about Obama's job performance?

You up for it?

90% of life is "showing up"

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01-13-2011 09:40 PM  7 years agoPost 50
PsychoZ

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Northern, CA

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I'm not a Republican, but thanks for jumping to conclusions.

Obama started his presidency with attacks on the right (yes, I'm on the right).
Please explain to me the difference between the "right" and republicans, I thought they were the same. Just like the "left" is the democrats. Or do I have the terms incorrect?

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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01-13-2011 09:48 PM  7 years agoPost 51
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Yes Yes I see your direction. Of course it would be great if our current president had the skill set for the challenge, Few do and by that I mean few presidents. Im not convinced one way or the other concerning the presidents ability. He has not knocked my sox off thats for sure. Nor do I think of him as an evil socialist hell bent on ushering in the all powerful "State".

I do believe many attribute more power to the office, more ability to the office of President, that exists. For sure the office is a lighting rod for credit and or blame, deserved or not. The president is not a king ruling by decree. It is an office, where truly exceptional leaders can have immense impact. Exceptionally poor leaders can have equal impact.

A comment was made earlier about President Obama being perpetually on the campaign trail. He is not alone out there, thats for sure. Its a problem but once again he sure aint flyin solo. I guess its just a very natural human thing, protecting what you have. We all do it on may levels and politicians are no exception. Wish I could offer a solution on that one.

I guess all I think I know is, we need to start solving some very complex and intractable problems. Problems that will soon overtake our country if unaddressed. As a country, we have faced other seemingly impossible challenges and come out on top. In those times we did it as a country, as a people that put (for the most part)the well being of the country first. We identified the challenges, worked thru the disagreements, communicated and despite our selves moved forward and met the days challenges. Sometimes, heck all the time we have had to kick portions of the problem down the road. That sucks but its sometimes the only way to keep progress going.

Thing is today, every thing is expressed as an absolute. Expressed as 1000% right or 100% wrong. Tactics of the day call for vilification of opponents. If you aint wit me your agen me. Since he does not agree with me he is evil. All motivation, is suspect all words are lies.

Just aint gonna work that way IMO.

RIP ROMAN

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01-13-2011 09:55 PM  7 years agoPost 52
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Please explain to me the difference between the "right" and republicans, I thought they were the same. Just like the "left" is the democrats. Or do I have the terms incorrect?
You have the terms correct. But, there is more to those terms:

Democrat: Large Government - More Taxation

Progressive Left: Obama/Palosi/Reid
Teddy Kennedy is another perfect example along with Bill & Hillary Clinton
Lots & Lots more government - Lots & Lots more taxation
In other words - Less freedom - More government

Republican: George Bush - George Bush Sr.
Less Government - Less Taxation

Conservative Right: Sarah Palin - Rush Limbaugh - David Limbaugh - Hannity - Cheney - etc.
Sick & Tired of big government & big taxation. But, don't have the steel balls to fight the progressive left.

Tea Party:
Sarah Palin
enough is enough - Clean up & vote all the above bastards out of office.
Those on the right that don't trust any of the above and will vote in their own candidates. Considered to go for more conservative & constitutional government than the above.

Everyone that goes to the voting booth is included somewhere in the above, unless you are Independent and vote to what works for you, right or left and do not make up your mind until you vote. The others are so small, they do not count

You choose

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01-13-2011 10:05 PM  7 years agoPost 53
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Thing is today, every thing is expressed as an absolute. Expressed as 1000% right or 100% wrong. Tactics of the day call for vilification of opponents. If you aint wit me your agen me. Since he does not agree with me he is evil. All motivation, is suspect all words are lies.
Thats true to a large part.

Does not really matter. Us, as little guys, don't have much impact when counted as 1. It is what it is. Choose which fits you best and move forward.

Or, just pull out of it entirely, keep your yap shut and let the chips fall where they may. Watch football, drink beer, party, play video games, surf the net, smoke dope, Join a cult, go to jail, whatever gets you off.

Anyone is free to choose either way.

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01-13-2011 10:08 PM  7 years agoPost 54
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Fla Heli
Please dont take this the wrong way but
If EVERY liberal has that reaction to you, then I propose that perhaps a change in the way you express yourself is in order. If the goal here is to prove you position is the correct one, then your tactics need to change.

Usually the real "truth" is somewhere in the middle. Or the best course is a combination of the current options.

Which brings me to my own personal problem. What is "The Truth"? How can I dig down to it? Todays world is adept at the manufacture of "fact". No matter what your position, "facts" are readily at hand to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that you are 100% correct. Media, politions, manufactures, US/We frame things so narrowly, so one sided, conveniently omitting items that do not support a position, thats its really very difficult drilling down to what folks 100 years form now will plainly see as true fact.

Today its more important to be Right than it is to do the right thing.

Just for the record, Daily new paper CTC, Day old Wall St J., NPR, Many monthly mags.,CNN, Fox, MSNBC, Internet wondering, Official reports friends, foes and more.

RIP ROMAN

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01-13-2011 10:21 PM  7 years agoPost 55
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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ON the point counter point on Pres Obama.............Honestly Im not up for it. Cant believe Ive spent this much time here, but its fun in a cut my ingrown toe nail out kinda way

Honestly Im up in the air about it. Like some stuff dont like other stuff. I always felt he was naive in his approach and his agenda. I do think he gives a great speech but boy could he learn a thing or two from Pres. Reagan. I dont think the Government can or should try to solve all my problems.

I dont see anyone in government with the Nads or skills to really address the issues in a straight forward or required courage. Right left or center, just dont see em. Nor, to be honest do I think most of the populace is ready willing and able to really do what needs to be done.

It all seems to be a recipe for decline. It does worry me.

RIP ROMAN

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01-13-2011 10:21 PM  7 years agoPost 56
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Today its more important to be Right than it is to do the right thing.
No its not.

Thats why the Tea Party came about the last 2 years or so.

If Republicans don't have the balls to get back to their conservative roots, then we could easily see another very competitive political party in the USA as early as 2012.

That would kill the Republican party. Or, at the very least, make them much lest competitive for the foreseeable future.

Its my projection, if that were ever to happen, then both the Progressive Left and the Republican parties would die. All we would have left is the Democrats and the Tea Party.

I could live with that.

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01-13-2011 10:46 PM  7 years agoPost 57
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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agreed Dennis.
FBoss, trust me, I've looked at it from the outside and it's NOT me!!
I see it happen alot, not just to me. A perfect example is my cousin's oldest son (about 34 or so) coming onto my FB page and reading something a couple friends had commented on about a post I had made and without REALLY reading the post, left a FLAMING nasty message saying that "you and your friends and the homophobic, slobbering racist knuckledragger's like you in the Republican party, are what's wrong with this country". Then promptly signs off and "unfriends" me on FB.
See, even though I disagree with him, I would never do that. I enjoy discourse. Most lefties do not, unless you are in agreement with them. Mind you, I babysat this kid from hewhen he was a newborn and he has known me his whole life and has never seen me do or say anything remotely bad or racist. Heck, I'm pro-choice and could care less about DADT or even same sex marriage. He just can't stand that I don't walk in lockstep with his VERY liberal ideals.
Trust me, it aint me.
PS - he's married to a Peurto Rican, his brother to a black girl. Me thinks they are just a LIIIIIITle too oversensitive because of that fact. Which is weird, because they're very nice women and the family loves them to death.

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01-13-2011 10:50 PM  7 years agoPost 58
dilberteinstein

rrNovice

texas - USA

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FBoss
Yes Yes I see your direction...
Now, we talking.

No single person has the ability to solve this country's problem...no past presidents...no future presidents.

I firmly believe we need a balance of power in this country...not because I am a fair minded person, but because of my mistrust of ANY party that has totally control.

My flames are directed mostly at the lefty Democrats at the moment because...well, I am a righty and they are such easy targets...Barney Frank, Pelosi, Biden, Obama, Maxine Waters, Charlie Rangle, the guy that was afraid Guam was going to tip over, and on and on and on.

The Republicans just don't have the characters that are up front in today's news. The comments about Palin have slipped into the death wish area and that gets too ugly too fast.

Sure, my great state of Texas served up Tom DeLay for discussion, but once he's sentenced to prison he becomes old news...kinda bland.

Did you see the picture of Biden with his hand on the cop's leg...you can't photoshop stuff that good.

Whoops, Kansas just filed suit on Obamacare. Wow, now Wyoming and Wisconsin are suing.

I going to have to recollect my thoughts and focus. I am rambling all over the place. Sorry, that's poor technique on my part.

90% of life is "showing up"

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01-13-2011 11:00 PM  7 years agoPost 59
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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I know that I directed my "change your Tactics" comment to you specifically, but U really meant the "right" too but the advise applies equally to the left.

If they dont get what you are saying, restate it differently.........

Yes People are people, many on both sides of the debate are totally unable or unwilling to listen.

Like Judge Judy often says. "God gave us 2 ears and one mouth for a reason" and I will quote wisdom from where I find it!

Listening is the key to useful communication, any communication for that matter.

RIP ROMAN

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01-13-2011 11:02 PM  7 years agoPost 60
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Dilberteinstein
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
comes to mind

I believe that quote to be 100% true

RIP ROMAN

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