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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Gyro with the most amount of gain?
01-14-2011 03:43 PM  7 years agoPost 41
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-65...ty_feather.html

it says that the hs65 can be programmed for 180 I am assuming with the hitec programmer

edit..just saw this

http://www.servocity.com/html/180o_servo_stretcher.html

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01-14-2011 03:51 PM  7 years agoPost 42
Eddy

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La Ca

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Wow, now ere talking! The servo stretcher is interesting, Unfortunately it would still increase manual input also, but at least I could get things set up for hover tests. Right now my ATV is set to 14 you can imagine what the resolution is like.

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01-14-2011 03:56 PM  7 years agoPost 43
Max Headspeed

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Sunny (!) Livingston, Scotland

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Try more gyros in series e.g. rx>gyro>gyro>servo. That'll double the gain & the throw as the second gyro will see the output of the 1st one as a normal rx signal and add it's own movement. Will still be limited by the maximum throw of the servo though.

Max Headspeed.

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01-14-2011 04:07 PM  7 years agoPost 44
Eddy

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La Ca

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That is also in interesting idea, I have not thought of that one, I will give it a try, your right that should not change the manual input.

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01-14-2011 05:41 PM  7 years agoPost 45
Ace4

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Chandler, AZ

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One of the issues you are likely having and observing is due to a misuse of the term "gain". Most gyros are going to have some variant of a PID control loop, however you are only able to set a single "gain" value, the gyro will internally scale the 3 gains (or more likely only the derivative gain, the integral gain is probably constant and very small) based upon what you set the "gain" to. The ratio or scaling of the derivative gain is probably fixed internally in the gyro controller, although it probably varies among gyro models. So when you manually rotate the gyro, you are not only creating an angular error, you are generating a rotational rate. So with the "gain" at maximum level, if internally the derivative gain is higher in one gyro model than another, you will observe more deflection as a result, even if the "gain" setting is the same. Heli gyros will have those ratios set to levels that work well for helis, but may not work well for other applications. That is why I said you will want a gyro that has the most tweaking options possible, because the defaults in heli gyros are set for a very high bandwidth and high control authority system (heli yaw axis), while a Harrier in pitch or roll is not going to be close in terms of control authority. The two-axis aircraft gyro probably has better P/D scaling, or perhaps even allows you to tweak that, since it is designed to deal with similar system dynamics, and aircraft control authority varies widely.

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01-14-2011 11:26 PM  7 years agoPost 46
ChristianM

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Oslo, Norway

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This is why i suggested the CSM SL720 since you can change all the gain values as you like for your application..

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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01-14-2011 11:31 PM  7 years agoPost 47
Eddy

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La Ca

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I am looking into this gyro now, do you have one? What is the max throw you can get out of this gyro, have you tried?

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01-14-2011 11:37 PM  7 years agoPost 48
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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TWO guestions that have never been anwsered clearly.

1. Have you gone into the setup on these various gyros and maxed out the SERVO TRAVEL SETTING FOR BOTH DIRECTIONS. I'm NOT talking about the gain settings either. SERVO TRAVEL SETTINGS are different from the GAIN setting. YES/NO

2. Have you gone into the ATV or Travel limits in your transmitter and set or maxed out the rudder channel settings there? YES?NO

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-14-2011 11:37 PM  7 years agoPost 49
HeliAdict

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Texas

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The gyro does not set throw. The servo has a max travel, The gyro only tells the servo how fast to get there. Do a little learning of PID loops.

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01-14-2011 11:42 PM  7 years agoPost 50
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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The gyro does not set throw
Then why have all of the Futaba gyros that I have had and my current V-Bars all have travel limits that must be programed into them.

Yes, I realize that the servo has a maximum physical travel, but it doesn't matter if the gyro travel limits are not asking the servo to move beyonds it's physical limits.

The throw or travel is set in the gyro.

Thats my stuPID loop!

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-14-2011 11:55 PM  7 years agoPost 51
Eddy

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La Ca

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Yes, everything is maxed out this was the first thing I did.
My ATV is set at 14 due to the long servo arms, setting the ATV high does not give higher servo throw from the gyro.

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01-15-2011 12:05 AM  7 years agoPost 52
fenderstrat

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Aston,Pa

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My ATV is set at 14
is this a typo????you mean 140 right??I hope so

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01-15-2011 12:19 AM  7 years agoPost 53
Eddy

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La Ca

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nope its 14, you have to remember the servo arms are almost 3" long, it takes only a tiny bit of manual input to move the puffers
once again if I had way more gain from the gyro I could reduce the length of the servo arm and set the ATV back to where it should be.
You guys keep thinking heli set up, this does not work like a heli.

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01-15-2011 01:03 AM  7 years agoPost 54
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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I'm out of this one. Eddy has no clue and I don't think he is going to listen, he has not yet.

Good luck with your project.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-15-2011 01:13 AM  7 years agoPost 55
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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Most people know that ATV on the gyro channel controls PIRO SPEED on a heli with an HH gyro...BUT..and this is a HUGE BUT.using a crazy low ATV will start to affect travel once its below a certain point.Try it,I did.Once ATV gets TOO low it will start to affect travel.

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01-15-2011 01:16 AM  7 years agoPost 56
Eddy

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La Ca

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LOL what??????
I have no clue? Maybe you would like to explain that!

At 14% the puffer fully opens and closes, what exactly will I gain by opening it more and closing it more? And did I ever say that I had manual control problems, no, so what exactly do I have no idea about?!?!?!?
This Is why I hate asking on these forums, I asked a simple question, what gyro has more gain that's all I wanted an answer to, it's to difficult for you to understand whats going on and how it works without being here and seeing it for yourself. I had a PHD and a senior EE students in my shop last week, I showed them the problem and they agreed with everything that I needed and are going to make something to amplify the gyro output not manual out put, I though I would ask here too, even thought they are doing this with the best intentions it may not happen so I am trying from every angle and talking to whom ever I can.
So... please tell me how i don't know what I am talking about.

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01-15-2011 01:18 AM  7 years agoPost 57
Eddy

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La Ca

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I am not using HH

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01-15-2011 01:20 AM  7 years agoPost 58
Eddy

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La Ca

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Oh by the way on the first attempt we had really high ATV and it did nothing other than max the servo out and and make manual control to sensitive.

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01-15-2011 01:22 AM  7 years agoPost 59
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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now I am confused
what exactly will I gain by opening it more and closing it more?
I thought we had established that the problem was the servo was not moving far enough for your need?

there is nothing you can modify or change on a gyro that will make the servo travel past its mechanical limits

lets start over....what EXACTLY are you trying to achieve?And for clarity sake lets state for the record that gyro gain and gyro travel limit AND servo travel limit are 3 seperate things,so we are all on the same page

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01-15-2011 01:31 AM  7 years agoPost 60
Andypants

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Sydney

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My HiTec HS65MGs are tiny - they go in my T-Rex 250. They have 180 degrees of movement.

From everything yuou're written, I'd say 1) your servo is too slow and 2) your endpoints are off. Endpoints adjust the maximum throw for any servo - on my radio I can go up to to 125 per cent travel. It's common for heli pilots to max out all throws to the point of mechanical binding.

My personal guess is your using an old radio and it either doesn't have an endpoints menu or it does and it's set wrong. I'll bet cash money a faster servo and tweaking endpoints will solve your problem - more throw and getting there faster. Cake.

Believe me - our gyros are set perfectly because they have to be and I myself have spent many hours setting my gyros to withstand pretty hefty rotational forces with no more than a degree or so kick if I really boot it.

I can see some people are getting a little frustrated as it seems we're reading off a different page sometimes. It'd be great if we could know what your radio is so we can suggest ways to solve your problem using the Tx's functions.

Lots/Very high/Ridiculously hard/No you can't

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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Gyro with the most amount of gain?
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