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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Four stroke gasser
01-02-2011 09:06 AM  6 years agoPost 1
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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http://search.horizonhobby.com/inde...id=12D45EE2964F

I don't know if this is ok to link like this. Well regardless what is your opinion on running a four stroke gasoline engine on a helicopter for AP use? No 3D just some solid hovering and slow forward/backward flights.

I know not too many has tried but I figure the advantage will be:

1) Low noise.
2) Lighter weight than those Zenoahs.
3) Low fuel consumption.
4) Lower engine rpm so maybe lower vibration level.
5) Expensive spark plugs

Disadvantage may be:

1) Expensive.
2) Lower power.

I used to fly a couple of four stroke glow fuel OS 91. One in a Four stroke Kalt Baron and the other in a Vario SkyFox. I loved flying them. Actually the four stroke SkyFox was my first AP helicopter with a first generation digital video recorder.

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01-02-2011 01:07 PM  6 years agoPost 2
brw0513

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Brisbane, Australia

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If I had the money (unfortunately I don't) I would give one of those 4 stroke gas engines a go, or maybe this as an intermediate step:

http://www.webra-austria.at/motor.p...er=HELI&lang=EN

I would think gearing and cooling would be the biggest issues to solve. But with time and experimentation, I'm sure it would be possible to fit a Saito into a heli. Apparently MA offered a few 4 stroke options in their stable over the years. I have seen a recent post on another forum (archeli.com.au) where the Graphite SE, Pro 1 and Pro II were mentioned.

I have a project on the go at the moment (Zenoah 20ei into a Blitz Avro airframe). To perform cooling duties I will be using two Compass Odin brushless fans. On 2S LiPo they move a lot of air in a "side by side" configuration. It is possible they would move even more if they were "stacked" one over the other.

I'm going on holidays tomorrow so won't have time to post a pic. If there is any interest, I'd be happy to do it when I get home in a few days time.

For gearing, I think a belt primary drive (Blitz Avro, some Robbe, Vario etc) would be a good choice to start experimenting with. HPC Gears (in the UK) sell a very good range of pulleys and belts. With access to a lathe and some ingenuity, you should be able to make the gear ratio you need.

Ian B

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01-02-2011 01:53 PM  6 years agoPost 3
Markus

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Montreal

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Webra just went out of Biz......

Markus

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01-02-2011 02:11 PM  6 years agoPost 4
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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QWW has one. We need to convince him to mass produce it!
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t479068p1/

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01-03-2011 12:13 AM  6 years agoPost 5
rerazor

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Mich.

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I think you want to use a Honda GX35.

There was one flying in a GSR last year or so. Remove the excess components on it and it weighed 4lbs.

I have to find the post, it was in the AP section.

Robert

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01-03-2011 12:21 AM  6 years agoPost 6
Ironhide

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dexter mi us

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I've been working on mine for a couple months now . I still need to break in the engine on a test stand .

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01-03-2011 12:41 AM  6 years agoPost 7
smallplanes

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S.C. ,SSA

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Looks good but what frame are basin it off of? Or are making the frame from scratch?

Thanks and it looks good
Ivan


Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br

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01-03-2011 01:07 AM  6 years agoPost 8
Ironhide

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dexter mi us

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Its a Synergy N9 mostly . The side frames are made from 7075 aluminum to shed any heat I can . The 40 mm EDF fan with also help , but still needs a little shroud .

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01-03-2011 01:38 AM  6 years agoPost 9
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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>>I've been working on mine for a couple months now . I still need to break in the engine on a test stand .<<

Looks great! Which Saito?

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01-03-2011 01:52 AM  6 years agoPost 10
Ironhide

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dexter mi us

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Sorry its the fg20

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01-03-2011 02:18 AM  6 years agoPost 11
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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>>Sorry its the fg20<<

Nice! Please keep us posted when you fly it. I really want to know if that is enough power. I am debating on which one to try. Either the FG20 or the FG30. I guess that will depend on how big a helicopter I plan to put that in also.

Sorry Robert, I looked at the Honda GX 35. That is a bit on the big side. If I go that big I may as well stick with the Zenoah 231 or 260.

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01-03-2011 05:28 PM  6 years agoPost 12
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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not mine but really neat

Watch at YouTube

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01-03-2011 05:29 PM  6 years agoPost 13
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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01-07-2011 11:00 AM  6 years agoPost 14
trillian

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London, UK

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4 stroke helis

That Predator with the Honda engine sounds so cool!

My winter project is a Robbe Futura SE with a Laser 150 four stroke nitro engine. The difficulty is in the way the carb and exhaust point straight down so the throttle servo and linkage is tricky and I'll need to raise the whole heli up for enough clearance and perhaps make some kind of base plate to go under it.

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01-07-2011 02:31 PM  6 years agoPost 15
scotter

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Winston-Salem, NC

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quiet!

That honda sounds really quiet, which is a plus in my book. Do you have any idea of the all-up weight?

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01-07-2011 04:51 PM  6 years agoPost 16
trillian

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London, UK

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He says in the video it is just shy of 8KG with fuel ! So it's pretty darn heavy.

My Predator with the 26cc Zenoah weighs just under 6 kg with a little fuel in the tank.

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01-07-2011 07:27 PM  6 years agoPost 17
PAHelinut

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PA USA

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Love the sound of the one with the Honda 4 stroke!

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01-07-2011 09:59 PM  6 years agoPost 18
oldfart

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Vancouver, Canada

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That Predator with the Honda engine sounds so cool!

My winter project is a Robbe Futura SE with a Laser 150 four stroke nitro engine. The difficulty is in the way the carb and exhaust point straight down so the throttle servo and linkage is tricky and I'll need to raise the whole heli up for enough clearance and perhaps make some kind of base plate to go under it.
I did a few 4-stroke nitro conversions in years past. Unlike a gasser engine, they generally do not use a fuel pump type of carburetor. Consequently, the biggest issues were with tuning their needles.

As you see in your installation, the carb is located far below the center line of the fuel tank. Consequently, you may find that you have so much fuel pressure at the carb inlet, that the motor will run too rich, even with the needles almost completely closed. The result is that it becomes hard to start (always wanting to flood) and impossible to set for a transition from idle, through hover and on to full throttle.

My solutions, where to lower the tank in one instance, and make a special manifold to raise the carb in another. Then I got them to run very nicely.

Phil

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01-09-2011 06:50 PM  6 years agoPost 19
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I am all for a four banger but because it will be on the heavy side anyway I think it should be a twin in the range of 35 to 40cc. Unfortunately I think that means it would have to be purpose built making it very costly. But I sure would love one.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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01-09-2011 07:25 PM  6 years agoPost 20
Disciple4123

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USA

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Well hte Honda (and competitors) 4 strokes are using a pump carb, not a bowl type like a lawnmower, thankfully. I have considered a honda build for years, but don't feellike putting the time in. Did a twin engine version of my Vario in 2007, EMI became an issue, the mechanics were fine.

Below is another thread about Honda's engine in a heli from years back.

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t314487p1/

If anyone cares to produce and field test one of these with a payload, there would be a market. Despite the Zenoah 270RC's reliability, I think there is always room for improvement. We would have to accept greater weight or less power from a 4stroke, that is typically how it works out. But, perhaps a more consistent power that does not bog under heat and extended loading like a Zen might at 80% power in summer weather.

Interesting thread...

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