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HelicopterMain Discussion › conflict between helis & planks
09-08-2003 05:31 AM  14 years agoPost 1
plantone

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Perth wa

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Can anyone answer a couple of question for me or offer any solution, We have a over enfusiastict commitee in our club that take safety to the extreme, don't get me wrong safety is a good thing but not when it starts to divide the club, The problem we have is first we were not allowed to pitt with the planks because they did n't like us hovering out to the flight line to join the curcuit of which is only flown in one direction depending on the wind, clockwise or anticlockwise, No figure eights No low fly buys & no aeros in the middle of the curcuit.So know we pitt at the end of the feild which is OK it allows the newbys to hover to the control line area to do hovering, we have been doing this now for about 18 months & all of a sudden the **** hits the fan again because hovering out to the flight line is deemed to be unsafe at eye level & the occasional above eye level flights that i could count on one hand that take place in a year that have been done in the control line area for trimming purposes only & by an experianced flyer. This leaves us with new members who want to go into forward flight with nowhere to do it, they cant learn on the control line area over scrub because its above eye level & they cant do it on the main flight line because they cant fly curcuits & the plank flyers are n't going to sit on the fence on their Sunday morning grounded while waiting for 1 heli to learn the next step into forward flight.
Have any of you got this problem in your club ??? have you overcome it & how can i put to the committee that it is safer the hover at eye level, did this idea come from the FAI, is it proven that this is a safer height to fly at while taxi, ing to & from flight lines!!!!!

Thanks Wayne

NZ

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09-08-2003 05:41 AM  14 years agoPost 2
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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Yeah Wayne, safety sure is taken to the extreme there alright!

I don't know why this crap happens, I've seen PLENTY of planks rarked up in pit areas at full noise and nobody seems to care. I've even seen planks come loose from somebodys grip and slam into another plank, but no hissy fit was thrown.

Crazy eh.

I don't see a problem with hovering with skids at eye level. Blades at eye height I'm a little nervous with, but skids are fine I reckon.

Si

-------------
Simon Lockington

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09-08-2003 05:53 AM  14 years agoPost 3
ChrisLaFollette

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Altha, FL

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Naa we have a big feild and whoever wants to fly flies. We usually dont fight. Most of the plankers just sit on there @$$ anyway half the time BS'n! Anyway naa we usually dont have problems. Well hold up I might be wrong! I only go on like sundays usually. And I dont attend the meetings or whatever. Well ill tell ya when I have been there everybody gets along and sometimes we fly helis with the planks we like to chase them! We do funnels around them while there so called "Hovering"! And we can do autos! LOL naa we dont do that. We just fly and have fun doing it! I hope ya get everyhting straight! Good luck!

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09-08-2003 06:32 AM  14 years agoPost 4
donlynn

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New Zealand

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Gidday

Wayne,
I'm fairly new to the r/c club scene only been a member for ~2 yrs
At our paddock(about 30 acres) in Christchurch ( one of over 1/2 doz) we have the track coming in from ther gate with the clubrooms disguised as a container at the end of it in the center of the paddock. Helis on one side of the track and planks on the other, works sweet as.

Restricted to 35 members and I'm yet to see a conflict, most of the heli pilots are also plankers .

I aggree with Si though regarding plank saftey, I too see newbies doing full power checks in the pits with no idea at all. It scares the crap out of me, I also try to tackfully suggest they may be a little safer if they move away from the kids a little and park up into wind before cranking it up, what do I know !!
How do you get on in the pitts if you fly both choppers and planks ?

Maybe you could ask the folks who are showing the concern what they would feel could be a constuctive soloution. Get them involved in the problem so all can feel their opinions are valued.
I too would be a little nervous if a newbie was hovering a heli out to the flight line , maybe you could carry your chopper to the flight line ? You'll be amazed at the enthusiasm if you make a little compromise.
Be thankfull of your enthusiastic committee , as it's their enthusiasim that keeps the place alive, rocking and you out of the coroners court.

Are there any heli guys who are also plankers on the committee ? maybe you could ask around NZ for a plan that seems to work for other fields and suggest your feild gives that a try ?
Si would be the one for having seen other setups.

good luck and stay positive !!!

When any of you folks who are coming to the Mainland always look us up in Chch as we have a meet every couple of months or so on a sat for most of the day for a few of the heli guys to get together, fly and talk heli ****. usually around 1/2 doz pilots at various learning stages from several of us newbie's to hotdog.
We are always keen to make the meet when some new folks are in town. Sometimes we'll even talk to jafa's !!

Regards Don

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09-08-2003 06:49 AM  14 years agoPost 5
KC

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WA

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09-08-2003 07:18 AM  14 years agoPost 6
NZ_Neil

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Disappointing Wayne ...... All this nonsense takes the shine of wanting to have more FunFlys at Rotorua. Last time I was there we were told helis were not allowed to do powered turns towards the pits ..... .huh ....

We are fortunate in Auckland to have a only Heli field and no damm plankers can dictate silly rules to us.

I think they are jealous because we already have fine weather when we had Heli Funflys in the past and it always rains on the plank fun flys there

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09-08-2003 02:16 PM  14 years agoPost 7
Thumbpilot

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Navan, Ireland

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Set up a heli only club or a heli first club that will put plankers in their place. If they don't like your rules thay can go somewhere else!

That's what I'm trying to do at the moment - there is only so much crap you can listen to. I was at a fun fly (planks only) at the weekend and three safety officers watched as 2 planks fired up and tested their engines at full throttle at the spectators line. Meanwhile there was a heavy rain shower and one planker kept flying until he lost control and ditched his plank - water in the TX or RX etc I suspect.

The so called safety officers are the worst offenders and if they see a heli they just have to have a go at telling you just how dangerous helis are. I believe helis would be banned from my club if the land was not publicly owned and they would be guilty of discrimination. They just make life as difficult as possible - hogging frequencies and making it impossible for beginners to learn etc.

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09-08-2003 02:55 PM  14 years agoPost 8
pilotError

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Long Island, NY

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Getting along

Hi,

I fly at a public field here in Long Island. Space is a premium here, so were forced to get along. The attitudes still fly on occassion, but we worked out a hovering only time early (7:30 - 9:00) where the helis can hover and fly without planes. This way we get the entire field for a few hours.

It sucks, but in the bigger spirit of things, it works out well. The new guy doesn't really have control yet and will on occassion veer off into an unwanted direction. Instead of having 40 plane guys jump all over you about safety, it's only the heli guys around who have patience and understanding about such things. When you get good enough to fly in the pattern, you graduate (as such) to a different colored pilot card and that allows you to fly all day with the planes. The plane guys have to graduate in order to fly solo as well. The pilot cards are to prove that you have AMA and a permit to fly at the field. Anyone without the card has to stay behind the spectator fence.

When I first started, I thought it was unfair, but there are only about 15-20 heli pilots here, and plane guys have about 80 - 100 pilots. The truly experienced plank guys could care less about the helis. The only time it seems to really bother them is on approaches, there not used to hearing the rotors so close to them (not really close, but perception is everything).

If you can find the space, start a heli only club and get the AMA sanction for the field. We have one on the Island, but it's 1 - 1 1/2 hours drive for me. I have little ones at home so I don't spend alot of hours flying, it's not worth the drive for me.

Good luck,

Mike...

Good Judgement comes from Experience. Great Judgement comes from Bad Experience.

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09-08-2003 02:58 PM  14 years agoPost 9
RotorX

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London

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I aggree with Si though regarding plank saftey, I too see newbies doing full power checks in the pits with no idea at all. It scares the crap out of me
In all honesty the conlict with planes/helis is real, but i feel there is a difference between a 10/6 prop made of plastic and a 680 carbons, you can hold a plank quite safley while you do this or a friend can help.

I would honestly say only a fool would do this with a heli, there is a rule in the UK which says that you can be in front or behind the prop when starting this the point of a flight line, cause if you do the above chance are less for you to get hit with a flying prop.

You cannot get above or below a rotor when checking this, so you put it down and move away for the wind up. I think most plane flyers are scared ****less when they see a heli wind up. remember the irst time you wound your heli up and that feeling you got.

I have chosen flying times that i know that i will get the field to my self, this is how i am to progress quickly, other flyers now follow suit.....

but stand your ground, by knowing the local flying rules. but this can also lead to more bickering - but for alot of these guys, thats all they have left

Kaz

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09-08-2003 03:24 PM  14 years agoPost 10
Hivoltage

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Ohio

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Same problem here, but I figure I pay the same dues as all the plankers pay. I wait for the sky to be empty before I fly and figure they can wait until I get my 15 minute flight in.

I Dont Have No Stink'in Signature

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09-08-2003 09:37 PM  14 years agoPost 11
plantone

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Perth wa

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Thanks Guys for your comments we have a committee meeting tonight to hopefully resolve some of these issues, the Kiwi guys here will already know most of the problems we have in the club & some may even know problems that have been in the past before i joined the club, one being that this sort of thing has already split it up & has taken 6 years to get back together again, i have now been in the club for approx 3 years & be the most experianced(HELI), i also fly pattern aerobatics of which i used to compete in the UK so i kind of sit on both sides of the fence i have seen a lot of fields with differant set ups from around the world but our club seems to reluctant to take onboard any ideas, they dont like change!!

piloterror
we are lucky that we a great field & can fly any time of day for all day all week, giving time slots i dont think is fair as we all pay fees to join the club & all have the same rights.

thumbpilot
leaving the club only means that we loose all the facilities that make this field so good & they wont leave, maybe we can ask thou !!!we have 50 odd members 2 of us fly both helis & planks we have 7 heli members & rest plankers so we dont get much say.

Neil NZ
I know what you mean we have had a lot of fun at this field in the past & it generated nz$1000 for them this last year 3 times the amount they managed from their funflys not bad for the percentage of heli flyers.

KC
10 Piss in their fuel, this option would keep them grounded for a while !!!!

Thanks all i will keep you posted maybe the outcome can help others in the future.

Wayne

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09-08-2003 11:58 PM  14 years agoPost 12
dariof

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Henderson, NV / Laguna Niguel, CA

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I have seen all the issues that are being spoken of here within the threads of this post, especially at some of the flying fields I used to attend in CA. It is awful to be subject to those situations.

I know we are very lucky here in Vegas.

Basically, the airplane pilots get along well with the heli pilots and visa-versa. In fact, most everyone sits together on one side of the field and many are also friends "off the court" so to speak. The local club is for both plankers and helis, and both attend the meetings. Both heli and planker events are sponsored and supported by the same club. When the plankers have their fun-flies, the heli guys help out and visa-versa. The other night we had a night fin fly, where both helis and plankers shared the flying site. All had fun without regard to who was flying what.

We have the ordinary and normal kidding and teasing, but it is just that.

I hope you get it all resolved. The conflicts definitely take their toll and some of the shine off of a fun hobby.

Dario

Best Regards, Dario

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09-09-2003 12:56 AM  14 years agoPost 13
BigRob

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Long Beach, CA

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nevermind

hehe. NZ..just noticed that


The one......
the only...
The BigRob

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09-09-2003 03:15 AM  14 years agoPost 14
green river

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Bluegrass State

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I'm lucky

I guess I'm lucky, I fly helis and planks out of my yard. A flat 50 acre field surrounds my 3/4 acre property. The gentleman that owns it said "fly your a$$ off, and shoot all the deer you want!"

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09-09-2003 05:06 AM  14 years agoPost 15
KC

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WA

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09-09-2003 06:49 AM  14 years agoPost 16
NZ_Neil

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Hey Wayne .... when they given to all your demands at tonites meetings then ask if we can bring our pet dogs

(The Rotorua Club actually hate two things Helis & Dogs)

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09-09-2003 09:07 PM  14 years agoPost 17
plantone

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Perth wa

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Neil NZ

i think i will let that one go for while neil but i do have a cunning plan for the next AGM. bribe all the pet owners with free beer & then raise the question again & watch as the NON pet owners get out voted.I already take Tosh down their sometimes early in the morning & let him run while i fly if S#@ts on the runway then hey, it's not like im going to taxi throu it!!!!!, Blame it on the pig dogs.

Wayne

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09-17-2003 10:53 PM  14 years agoPost 18
plantone

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Perth wa

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UPDATE

Just to let you guys know that the meeting was last night & a good outcome came from it, We can now taxi hover at eye level from the pitts to the main flight line & we now have the what used to be the hover only area is now a flying area that can be used be people wishing to get into circuit flying without holding up the planks on the main flight line, All in all a win for everyone as leaving the club was not really an option as we then loose out this way everyone gets what they want, so hopefully the dust will settle again & may even see the return of some heli members now they have a place to fly. Some of these problems i beleive have occured in the past because we have not been consulted & a decision has been made for us by the committee but they dont fly heli's & so dont understand the issues we have. Once explained about flying in ground effect & lack of perhiferal( sorry for spelling) vision that you dont have when looking at your feet they could see that being eye level made more sence. Some could nt comprehend the difficulty that some flyers have when learning to fly curcuits in that the heli stops moving then you panic & it flies backwards cause you dont know what to do to stop it & you cant fly nose in oh F@#K this is scary ****, etc,etc.So the Kiwi guys can rest assured we still have a flying site & you are all welcome.If anyone else is having conflict in their club the only suggestion i can make from this experiance is get a heli member on the committee, stay calm & try to explain the difficulties in fly these heli they may see the light.

Have fun Wayne
NZ

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09-17-2003 11:00 PM  14 years agoPost 19
ChrisLaFollette

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Altha, FL

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Good!

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09-18-2003 03:36 AM  14 years agoPost 20
donlynn

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New Zealand

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Gidday Wayne

"All in all a win for everyone "

Perfect, well done !!

Regards Don

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HelicopterMain Discussion › conflict between helis & planks
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