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HelicopterMain Discussion › Overspeeding using Mas tech setup
09-05-2003 10:15 PM  14 years agoPost 1
jasonmolinari

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Atlanta, GA

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I just set my shuttle up to run a somewhat symmetrical setup in Idle-up 2, -8,0,+11..
If i use the V throttle curve, 100,55,40,55,100, when i come down from flying around the head seems to start to overspeed, and it speeds WAY up...

How do you guys stop this from happening? Other than a governer?

jason

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09-05-2003 10:44 PM  14 years agoPost 2
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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You fix this by not using the Mas setup.

This is just my opinion, but the Mas setup was done back in the days when helis were underpowered. If you try and run a Mas setup on some of the machines these days such as 50's and 90's, the things are going to hugely overspeed.

However, depending on the way you're descending, any V Curve is going to overspeed. I use ID1 to do descents, but most of my descents now are autos anyway.

Your setup should really be something like 9.5 each way anyway, 11 degrees on a shuttle isn't worth much, a good 9.5 is better.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-05-2003 10:48 PM  14 years agoPost 3
jasonmolinari

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Atlanta, GA

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The blades i'm using need a little more pitch, for example, at 55% throttle with my woodies it was hovering at 5.5-6 deg., these blades need bout 7-7.5 deg.
Either way, 11 up at the top make the heli climb nicely.

So the solution to the problem is what?

jason

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09-05-2003 10:54 PM  14 years agoPost 4
Secret Squirrel

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What kind of blades are they?

The solution really depends on how you fly. You CAN do descents in ID2, you just do them differently (ie you dive).

I would suggest you setup an ID1 curve with the same pitch curve as 2 but set a throttle curve something like 40,45, 60, 80, 100 something like that.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-05-2003 10:56 PM  14 years agoPost 5
jasonmolinari

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Atlanta, GA

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They are FRP glass semi-sym. blades. 550s.
My idle up is set up like that, i guess i'll have to switch when i want to decent? Man, that is a pain in the ashe!
thanks
j

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09-05-2003 11:16 PM  14 years agoPost 6
Secret Squirrel

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Well no you don't HAVE to, you just have to learn how to descend in ID2, but why don't you just auto?

Semi symmetrical blades aren't the go for 3D applications, you know that eh?

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-05-2003 11:41 PM  14 years agoPost 7
jasonmolinari

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Atlanta, GA

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Yeah i know semis aren't the best for 3d i screwed up and ordered the wrong ones

Why dont i auto? becuase i dont necessarily want to come down all the way to the ground, just drop down to a couple feel altitude....plus i don't know how to auto

j

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09-06-2003 01:51 AM  14 years agoPost 8
440GTX

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Calgary, Canada

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Over Speeding

I had the same problem with my R30 V2, TT39
I have throttle 100, 60, 40, 60 , 100 Idle 1
An RR member told me to switch to normal mode on final decent.
Throttle 0, 25,40,50,100
It worked for me.

Fred..

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09-06-2003 01:54 AM  14 years agoPost 9
Al Magaloff

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I always decend in NORMAL. On the way down I flip out of IDLE-UP.

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09-06-2003 03:02 AM  14 years agoPost 10
jasonmolinari

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Atlanta, GA

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Ok thanks guys.

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09-06-2003 03:33 AM  14 years agoPost 11
Matthew

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Christiansburg, VA

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I run the mas set up on my 30 and every one I know runs it on there helis. They have xcells and vigors. We all run -9 +9 there abouts and never have a prob. Normal should be 0 25 50 75 100 for throttle idle up 100 75 55 or 50 75 100. Next set the engine to run with it richen or lean it out. My little rappy will flip flop and what ever with this setting. If not go to Rotory.com and ask the man him self.

Raptor 70 V2 MPII 9C

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09-06-2003 04:18 AM  14 years agoPost 12
hyflyr

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Well your pitch numbers don't make much sense if you are running semi symetrical blades. They should be hovering with less pitch upright than full symetrical blades. Are they the same length? Most of the time helis overspeed in descents is due to not enough negative pitch at a given throttle setting. You should really have your pitch curve with -11 and +8 with the semi's. This is why you are overspeeding. You are pulling the throttle back into the power but are not loading the disk with negative pitch. I can setup even a .90 without a governer and make power descents without major overspeeding with finesse and proper throttle-pitch settings. The key is having enough negative pitch so the heli comes down without the throttle too high. It takes some good pilot skills and patience to dial in the curve. You should be descending at a good rate without being at over 65% throttle. One thing to do is to initially widen the V curve and make it more of a U curve. This will give more room for negative pitch and less throttle. Then use a higher cyclic to throttle mix to make up for the lower throttle setting in the middle of the V curve.

Good luck

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09-06-2003 01:41 PM  14 years agoPost 13
chirodb

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New York, NY

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Overspeeding on decents...

On the topic of overspeeding, all suggestions listed above are valid. I do, however believe that the head should always be loaded. I try never to do fast decents with power. Try a decending maneuver that loads the head. A simple maneuver such as a 180 deg banked turn wihle decending. Then there's always tail slides and knife edges. Although there's little load in these moves, the lack of updraft through the disc prevents the overspeeding. Besdies, it's more fun to watch than a plain ole decent! I have to agree, with the MAS setup it's tough to stop from overspeeding.

All the 'pros' out there seem to be doing the same thing.

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09-06-2003 04:12 PM  14 years agoPost 14
hyflyr

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Well I have to disagree with the statement that the linkages do not have to be 100% mechanically correct. Actually with CCPM helis it is more important than ever. The slightest mechanical error cannot be compensated for electronically. There will be interactions and the computer is not goin' to fix it. The endpoints of swash travel may look good but what happens in between can be ugly. This is one of the biggest disadvantages of CCPM. While it is less parts it is more work to setup correctly.

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09-06-2003 05:18 PM  14 years agoPost 15
RotorX

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London

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Get a Gov and save some headache, go fly and when you have some time study the curve thing, less headache more flying, happier bunny you will be - for real


Kaz

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09-06-2003 07:12 PM  14 years agoPost 16
Raffy

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Chicago, Illinois

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Your setup is wrong(non linear). Pitch -8 0 +11 Thrtl 100 40 100

Try to do this:

Throttle : 100% 70% 45% 70% 100%
Pitch: -10 -5 0 +5 +10

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09-06-2003 10:07 PM  14 years agoPost 17
Al Magaloff

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Colin, if anyone else posted this drivel, your father would rip them to shreds. Also, look up the definition of the word "your". Using this correctly could help this crap go down the bowl better.

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09-06-2003 10:49 PM  14 years agoPost 18
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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A governor isn't just a bolt on solution, you have to have the engine tuned right before you bolt that on. I can't count the amount of machines I've seen with GV-1's on them that sound crap because the owners thought they were bolting on an 'engine management system' and just forgot about the needles.

A GV-1 is not essential, it's just a nice-to-have. You can easily get by without them.

Alexander has got it wrong by stating that getting your linkages right has been outdated by computer radios, as hyflyr says, it's more important now than ever.

However I do believe that the Mas Technique throttle curve suggestions have been outdated for sometime now. Who wants to hover their 90 at 70% power? No thanks!

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-07-2003 09:21 AM  14 years agoPost 19
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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There I go again???

Alexander,
You have to get all your linkages correct for your programming in your transmitter to be accurate.

You're right you can GET BY with a crap mechical setup, but it won't be optimum.

I'm talking about getting your ATV's as even as possible, getting your geometry right where possible etc. If none of these are as good as you can get, your computer radio will not be as effective as it would be if it were all correct.

Mechanical setup has not be outdated by anything. It's that kind of perception that I was trying to illustrate when I talked about people who bolt on GV-1's thinking it will fix all their engine problems.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-15-2003 01:08 AM  14 years agoPost 20
321

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FL

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Overspeeding using Mas tech setup
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