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HelicopterMain Discussion › Auto's and Gyro's
09-05-2003 06:02 AM  14 years agoPost 1
bluefronted

rrVeteran

Pretoria, South Africa

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Hi again ,

I will be starting my baby auto's this weekend.I need some advice.
Rays a.. heli manual , mentions to start with practising autos from 3 foot / 1 meter high.My concerns / quests are:

1) What should my gyro be set on ? HH or Rate / Normal mode.I will be practising on a heli whose tail is belt driven.

2) The pitch of the tail blade , what must this be throughout the auto ? 0% , 10% , ..... does not matter what pitch is used on tail

3) If the tail pitch must be constant , where do I set it ?From what I can see on my 9ZAP , I will need to enable the pitch to rudder mixing , and set the tail pitch constant for all pitch values. Is this the correct way ??.

4) Basically . I'm using the same switch to swith the auto curve on and to hold the throttle , Is this the way its done ?

thanks again.

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09-05-2003 06:50 AM  14 years agoPost 2
vfastr6

rrVeteran

Cape Town, RSA

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Howzit cuzzin....

1st question: Do you have a driven tail or not? Check this by turning the blades the right way. If the tail blades still turn, then it is driven.

If the tail is NOT driven, the setting of the HH/Normal and tail rotor pitch is not an issue - just leave it in any mode and any tail pitch.

If the tail is driven, I go to normal mode (used in conjunction with Gyro Sens on the 9C - switch mix is CONDITION).

I then have rudder offset mixed in as well. I program this to zero degrees - this makes sense coz you don't have any torque from the motor and therefore need no tail rotor compensation.

As to question 4 - you're spot on.

Check out these sites:
http://www.ronlund.com/autos.htm
http://www.littlerotors.com/flyinglessons/autorotations.asp
http://download.hovercrew.com/data/manuals/mas/MasTechAutos.pdf

Cheers
Marc

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09-05-2003 11:11 AM  14 years agoPost 3
bluefronted

rrVeteran

Pretoria, South Africa

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Marc , I think Adrian.law is right u did mix up the first line , I did read thro' the links you gave.

If the tail is driven during autos , then your HH should be off , U probaly will succeed the auto , but if u power up before landing , your tail will piro ... depending on how much the gyro pulled or pushed it.

Marc u mention tr compensation , what function is this , I will be using the Pitch to Rudder mixing to keep the tr constant , Is this the same thing ??

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09-05-2003 11:31 AM  14 years agoPost 4
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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HH always on, in all modes.
Dont use REVO mixing with HH on.

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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09-05-2003 11:56 AM  14 years agoPost 5
Ringomtb

rrNovice

Austin

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Now what's the verdict ??

Must HH be on or off during autos when using a non driven tr system during autos.

I was going with VFAST and ...LAW , why do u say always on MrNoodles , will having the HH on not be a problem when you power up to prevent a failed auto ???

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09-05-2003 12:02 PM  14 years agoPost 6
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Sorry I didnt make myself clear, on both of my helis (Sceadu/Freya) the tail is driven during autos.

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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09-05-2003 12:25 PM  14 years agoPost 7
Ringomtb

rrNovice

Austin

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So mr Noodles , does this mean with a non driven tail during autos , I must have the gyro in rate / normal mode ??.

As Blue ... asks , where does one compensate or keep the tr pitch constant , in the rev mixing ??

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09-05-2003 12:38 PM  14 years agoPost 8
jonasl

rrApprentice

From Denmark, but live in Hong Kong

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You fly a 9z + all those helis, but still dont know how to auto yet?????

Am I missing something here???

/Jonas

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09-05-2003 01:00 PM  14 years agoPost 9
bluefronted

rrVeteran

Pretoria, South Africa

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Yes Jonas !

I cannot Auto as yet but I own :

an ergo 30SS , 2 X Voyager 50's + a good as new Vigor CS + the Futaba WC2.

I managed to get the WC2 and the Vigor CS + GY601 + hatori pipe SAB blades for less then half the selling price.The vigor was only just assembled when I bought it.
As my luck goes , I bought a voyager 50 kit for a good price , the guy sold me a second kit + galaxy 50 body for almost nothing , he was clearing out.
I started last Nov with r/c helis , I bought an ergo 30SS + 8103/3810.

I have progressed to nose in , loops , rolls ,stalls , etc before learning auto's.the problem is that I fly and practice 95% of the time on my own.I live in an area where theres no clubs near me.I fly at least 20 flights on a good wekend , had only one crash thus far ( in 10 months), which was major , see my gallery

I occasionally go to JHB , SA and visit VFAST and a mate of his who help me with problems, but the remainder of the time I rely on RR and RCU.

I learnt 80 to 90% of my setups and manuvers by posting on RR and RCU.
JANEK on RR has also helped me wrt stalls and loops , he even mailed me a free copy of Rays Auth.. heli manual..

Finances permitting , I hope to own a Lama scale and probably some sort of Vario scale by early next year.

I'm just one of those who runs before crawling

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09-05-2003 01:14 PM  14 years agoPost 10
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Jonas

You looks very Scandinavian to be a "native" HongKong citizen!?
Where are you from?

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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09-05-2003 03:38 PM  14 years agoPost 11
jonasl

rrApprentice

From Denmark, but live in Hong Kong

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mrNoodles

I am from Denmark! - but currently working in HK
I want to go back to Denmark though, coz there are not any good flying fields here in HK.


Jonas

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09-05-2003 03:53 PM  14 years agoPost 12
KenJ

rrVeteran

Ohio, USA

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HH all the time

Driven tail or not,

Heading hold all the time.

Especially when you are first starting out, trying to flip too many switches at once is BAD.

Keep it simple and your results will be the best.

Team Horizon

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09-05-2003 04:39 PM  14 years agoPost 13
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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If you have fast servo and gyro you can not go wrong with HH on. With HH off you may get some surprises, like a twitch of the heli at the moment you turn hold on (and you can't correct it after the twitch if you have a non-driven tail).

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09-05-2003 04:46 PM  14 years agoPost 14
3dwanabe

rrVeteran

Huntersville, NC

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I'm with Furious Raptor and mrNoodles on this one. Keep it simple and stay in HH. Piro on aborted auto's are slight and easily corrected with a little rudder stick. A helicopter with a non-driven tail will usually yaw at the end of an auto anyway. The only time I use non-HH mode is for fff with a scale model.

Roy

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09-05-2003 07:09 PM  14 years agoPost 15
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Kind of off topic but..

Jonas
Still admit that the prices for your lovely Freya is much nicer in HK
And soon its getting cold and dark here in Sweden

Im no auto expert, and since both of my helis has driven tail i use HH in all modes. But it does make sence what Furios, w.pasman and 3d says.

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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09-05-2003 08:02 PM  14 years agoPost 16
bluefronted

rrVeteran

Pretoria, South Africa

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i did give baby auto's a try today , its 21h00 here in south africa at the momement.

tried the first few with rate mode , almost lost the heli.Did the remainder with HH and no rev mixing , much easier.

thanks for all the suggestions , but keep 'em coming

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09-05-2003 08:11 PM  14 years agoPost 17
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Babys

Is good to start off with, to get a feel how fast it stops, when adding collective, just dont panic when you hits the switch.

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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09-05-2003 09:02 PM  14 years agoPost 18
5zigendes

rrApprentice

Orange County, ca

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what is the difference when you have the rudder on HH or normal during auto's? is one better than the other? i see most people prefer to use HH on all flight conditions.

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09-05-2003 09:18 PM  14 years agoPost 19
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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It locks the tail (as in the other flight modes when using HH)

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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09-07-2003 02:36 PM  14 years agoPost 20
bluefronted

rrVeteran

Pretoria, South Africa

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Adrian.Law ,

When I first attempted the auto's , i did them with the heli facing parrallel to me , with rate mode at 60% gain , when i hit hold the heli piro'd fast and faced me nose in , I was not expecting a nose in , so I just gave full -ve , luckily I was doing 4 foot / +1 meter autos.

The remaider of the weekend I tried 'em with HH on , and the tail did not piro much if any , I also hit hold at about 20 meters high , gave -ve all the way to 3 meters with HH on , switched off hold ,engine rev up , but the tail did not piro violently as most say.
I gues I will use the HH fuction in future.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Auto's and Gyro's
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