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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters Docs  Blue Thunder Down-Under - Smartmodel 700​BlueThunder with fenestron
02-17-2011 01:00 PM  6 years agoPost 81
iHover

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Berne , NY

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How heavy are those frames comaired to the CF frames? Why did you need the longer shaft on the motor?

You had me at Hover

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02-17-2011 06:29 PM  6 years agoPost 82
wingtip

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Indiana

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because it supported by a bearing at the tip of the shaft?? where most kits just have the motor held in place by the can mounts and thats it... my guess is to help keep the alignment since its a thinner shaft at the tip???

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02-17-2011 09:24 PM  6 years agoPost 83
heliadictaholic

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Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day guys,
Thanks wingtip for clarifying the need for a longer shaft. The longer shaft is not totally necessary as the pinion support kit from KDE Direct has another small shaft extension piece that slips into the end of the pinion cog and the other end is held by 2 bearings at the top of the pinion support housing. I preferred to get the longer shaft.

Ea01bg, have a look at the photos - you can see the KDE Direct fitting on top of the motor mount. The pinion is hidden from view by he pinion support fitting.

I don't know the weight difference between the aluminium and CF frames. The reason I went to 2.5mm aluminium is to eliminate vibration. There are a lot of Airwolf pilots [and possibly others] who experienced serious vibration issues even with CF frames. I started with fibreglass frames but the heli was not flyable because the frames flexed badly. 2.5mm aluminium frames = nil vibration after the initial action of the blades setting on start-up.

Landing lights:
For reference, see the pic below that shows the comparison between the Aussie made BT landing light fitting and the TF Model - sorry, pic is a bit fuzzy...

"reaper31", I missed your last post - I do not buy kits any more when building scale because in my case, most of the parts will not be used.

I use KDE Direct bearing blocks on the main shaft because they have separate thrust bearings as well as the normal radial bearings, I use KDE main drive gear and pinion which are much heavier duty than the stock item and the teeth are "module 1".
I use Raptor tail blade grips as I think they look heaps better than the stock Align - although only plastic. I am not going to test CF main frames - they cost heaps more than a couple of pieces of aluminium from a sheet metal shop and there is no guarantee that they will not flex causing vibration - [could be lucky - or maybe not]. Having said that, I have seen 2mm CF frames advertised at "Takeoffandland" for a very cheap price..... see: http://www.takeoffandland.com.au/pr...roducts_id=4315

Don't forget that the BT is a 700 size heli with 600 mechanics and in my case, fitted with 3x700mm blades... "In my opinion" thrust bearings on the main shaft is worth the upgrade...

And of course, with the BT, all tail drive components in a kit will not be used because the BT has a fenestron installed.

I don't use the main rotor head - 3 blade head on the BT and a 4 blade head on my EC145 (still in the box not started yet). KDE Direct produce some nice upgrades for T-rex gear but at this stage, they do not produce side frames. see: http://www.kdedirect.com/

I had thought about pricing CNC laser or HP water jet cut side frames - but have not yet made any enquiries...

A lot of my selections may be over the top but the upgrades are available so I use and they seem worthwhile.

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02-20-2011 05:31 AM  6 years agoPost 84
heliadictaholic

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Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day guys,
Has anyone had any experience with the multi blade rotor heads from Smart Model? Have a look at the pic, the angled "rods" between the swash and the blade grips. I am going to use a Turnigy V-Bar 600 [or similar] Are these angled rods OK to use with the V-bar 600, or should they be replaced with straight rods? I do not know if the V-Bar 600 takes care of the rotor blade phase adjustment....


How are you guys going with your Blue Thunder projects?

I think I have found a suitable product for tinting the windows. It is Vitrail, a product used in painting glass. I chose the transparent paint, thinned to 1 part paint to 1.5 parts thinner then sprayed a large piece of polycarbonate on the inside face... The camera flash in the pics spoils the effect but it looks OK. My first attempt was with a Tamiya black spray window tint for plastic. I think it was too dark. The colour I chose is grey and matched the BT quite well.

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02-20-2011 12:13 PM  6 years agoPost 85
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos​Brasil

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Hello,

I'following your build, nice work !!!

Looking at your new rotor head can say is the the type plug'and play, there is no need of follower in this head, the rigid arms ( swash plate to bladegrips) do this job. As well the phasing is almost the correct with this arms.

If want a more realistic view, then you will need to do some mods, to put straight link and stabilize with virtual phasing electronic stabilizer. And there is a need to make a new follower too.

The rotorhead seems very nice, and is close to the real head a litle bit, I ordered a complete heli wth Kim from Samart Models, included the rotorhead that I will modify soon as I have in hands, in two weeks I hope.

Best regards,
Manuel

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02-20-2011 05:16 PM  6 years agoPost 86
wingtip

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Indiana

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The real gazelle head gets the majority of its timing from the lower swash being offset unlike most of our helis where one of the control points on the (120deg ccpm) swash is always directly in the centerline of the heli... The gazelle head swash isnt 120, it is a T configuration and the leg of the "T" is offset from the centerline, allowing the pushrods to the grips to be straight thus requiring no electronic mixing on our models, unless you just want one as a backup or something...
In other words on our models when you push forward cyclic on the radio the swash naturally tilts forward... on the gazelle when they push forward on the cyclic it tilts to about the 11 oclock position...

the photos below will demonstrate...

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02-20-2011 05:55 PM  6 years agoPost 87
slickporsche

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American/Philippines

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Multi blade rotor heads

Actually multi blade rotor heads fly well without any "assisted living" accessories, such as a 3-axis gyro. I fly two blade FBL all day long and no assistance. You can also convert an existing flybar head to FBL. Hey guys don't mind me, I'm so cheap I can squeeze a bufflo nickel so hard it ****s on the floor. Meaning I do not spend money I do not need to spend.

You guys sure have some beautiful projects going. Great workmanship! I hope you post pics when you are done, and maybe a vid.

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02-20-2011 05:58 PM  6 years agoPost 88
slickporsche

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American/Philippines

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Gazelle

Yeah that is the problem with some scale heads. I have heard that smartmodels heads fly well, but I do not know from experience.

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02-20-2011 11:52 PM  6 years agoPost 89
heliadictaholic

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Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day Guys,

Thanks for all the help on my rotor head phase question. I think the decision on using a stabilisation system, or not, depends on individual ability and experience level.
I have read on other threads where some have said that flying FBL or multi's without stabilisation is not pleasant and others who say, as slickporsche said, flying FBL without stabilisation is OK. I have had one multi in the past, it was a 450 size Agusta A109 with a cheapie 4 blade head and using a helitronix mixer with 2 gyros [not counting the rudder gyro]. That was when I was quite new to RC helis and zero knowledge on RC heli mechanics. I did not continue with the 450 because everything was so small and frustrating to work on. I still have the helitronix but not sure if it is in the same league as some of the newer systems on the market.

My AirWolf Trex 600 head has been modified to be FBL. I have modified and flipped the levers that the anti rotation links are connected to [not sure what they are called], over and made an anti rotation follower. I did not connect the blade link rods directly between the blade grips and the swash. The method I have used provides a bit of - what's it called? - resolution I think - the reason for this is because I modified the lower part of my swash which has moved the ball links inward a few millimeters. I had to do this to avoid cutting out heaps of fibreglass from the fuselage cowl to keep the rods from passing through the side of the cowl. The pic below shows what I did to my Trex 600 swash.

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02-21-2011 11:38 AM  6 years agoPost 90
heliadictaholic

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Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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Me again,
I received some parts today from KDE Direct. I can now start and assemble the mechanics.

One thing to remember when assembling the mechanics - especially if using 3 bearing blocks as I am, is to progressively tighten screws so that the main shaft does not bind. The way I test the main shaft for a "free" fit is to install the shaft with no attachments, lubricate with some light oil, then hold the shaft up a bit but still passing through all bearings, then release the shaft. If the shaft slides down through the bearings under its own weight, I think that is a pretty good fit. If the shaft is a bit tight, adjustments need to be made. Remember, the shaft needs to rotate with minimal resistance. Excessive resistance will waste energy and reduce flight time...

I did a small video showing what I mean but it is not a suitable file type to upload to this site. If anyone is not sure of what I mean, I can send them the "5 second" video....

From memory, I think this is covered in the Trex manual. - Just a reminder....

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02-25-2011 12:36 AM  6 years agoPost 91
heliadictaholic

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Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day Guys,

This is a strange one - I can not work out why the problem below exists. The only thing I can think of is the possibility that I have mixed 600E and 600ESP parts - although I don't think they would be different.

I had a few problems with inserting the bolt that goes through the lower drive gear, the one-way bearing sleeve and the main shaft. Would not go through....
I stripped the drive down to just the main shaft and the one way bearing sleeve... There is no way the bolt was going through.
I tested various parts - Align main shaft and align sleeve, Align main shaft and Hobby King HK600 sleeve, SmartModel extra long shaft... Don't know what has happened. The bolt passed through each individual item OK but not when assembled. The hole diameter through the shaft and the sleeve are all perfect size - no slop what so ever. The extra long shaft from SmartModel is machined perfectly and matches the align shaft.

I fixed the problem in the end by machining about 0.2mm off of the top face of the one-way bearing sleeve.

Fits perfectly now.

I am curious and would like to know if anyone else have any issues....
I took some photos but left my camera at home so I have drawn the components so that you can see what I am talking about.
I think if you have purchased your mechanics in a kit, all should be OK. I purchased various parts that I needed - not a kit.

This is not my first heli, I have built a Raptor E550, Trex 600E, HK 600E, Trex450, 2 Mini titans - this is the first time I have encountered this problem...

I have a lathe so easily fixed in my case....

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02-27-2011 11:51 PM  6 years agoPost 92
heliadictaholic

rrApprentice

Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day guys,

I have some HobbyCity "Turnigy 959 digital servos" with metal case and metal gears, which I was going to use on the main rotor, in my Blue Thunder.
These servos are not fast at 0.2 sec.....

I think if I were building a super 3D machine, these 959 servos would not be suitable.

Does anyone have an opinion on these servos in a scale heli? with 3 blade head and stabilisation system?

And, are there any problems with them when used on a Spektrum DX7 radio?

If there are problems with these servos, what is a good recommendation? - without going to super expensive? I would like to use these because, well, ---- "I already have them..."

Also I am about to select a speed controller... I am using a Turnigy 100A Super Brain in my Airwolf on 9S lipos - seems OK. I would like to stick with the same model for my BT - but if anyone has had problems with the Turnigy, please advise an alternative - again, not megabucks....

Thanks,
Jim

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02-28-2011 12:02 AM  6 years agoPost 93
iHover

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Berne , NY

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Flying a $1000 scaler on $20 servos doesnt sound like a good idea. The saying penny wise and pound foolish comes to mind. I'm going to use align 610s. I've been running them in 4 of my other Helis (2 pod n boom 2 scale) and they have worked well.

You had me at Hover

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02-28-2011 01:40 AM  6 years agoPost 94
heliadictaholic

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Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day ea01bg,

Yes, you are correct of course...

When I saw the Turnigy's were coreless, metal gear and alloy case, I thought they would be an ideal, strong servo.... But they have not been around for very long so accurate details on their quality and suitability is not available.

I have had 2 "name brand" ESC's fail (1 on my Mini Titan and 1 on my E550, so that "name brand ESC" is off my list!!
I have also had a "name brand" elevator servo overheat and melt on a mini Titan. I must have been plain unlucky with that servo because they have a first rate brand name which I would use again.

I am going with the Align610's on the main rotor - Found a set of 3 610's on ebay - for $184USD delivered... They are on their way...

I have gone overboard a bit with all of the other upgrades, main gear, pinion support, Scorpion etc..... Why save a few bucks on probably the second most important component on the heli???? (radio takes first place)

What will you be using on the tail of your BT. I know that Smart Model/TF model? recommends something with I think it was about 12kg force....

How are you progressing with your BT?

Regards,
Jim

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02-28-2011 01:16 PM  6 years agoPost 95
wilerbee

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Hong Kong

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I have set up and tried the motorized tail unit with a Futaba 520 Gyro and Align 610 servo for the rudder with great results and highly recommend this setup personally. You will need to select the gyro sensitivity to your flying style though, With the standard sensitivity the tail response is a little to quick for my style of flying.

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02-28-2011 01:26 PM  6 years agoPost 96
wilerbee

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Hong Kong

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Additional photo and footage of our Blue Thunder with our scale 3 blade rotor head and our 700 scale blades in action at a local scale gathering yesterday. Enjoy !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adeu...player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elTw...player_embedded

Almost forgot to mention, it is flying on 6s with actro 24-5 main motor and 4s on the stock tail motor.

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02-28-2011 06:36 PM  6 years agoPost 97
iHover

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Berne , NY

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wilerbee,
What headspeed are you running on that head and what flight times are you getting?

heliadictaholic,
I'll be using a 620 or 610. I havent made any progress. Waiting on parts.

You had me at Hover

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02-28-2011 07:48 PM  6 years agoPost 98
Hoverup

rrElite Veteran

Golden Gulf Coast -​USA

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Willis - could you share the specifices on the fenestron motor and ESC?
Thanks.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
LSF 853
Major USAF
Retired

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03-01-2011 12:27 AM  6 years agoPost 99
heliadictaholic

rrApprentice

Hobart, Tasmania -​Australia

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G'day All,

Wilerbee, I have not seen your youtube videos yet (youtube blocked on this PC) - are you using any electronic stabilisation on your Blue Thunder?

Jim

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03-01-2011 04:57 AM  6 years agoPost 100
wilerbee

rrApprentice

Hong Kong

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Thanks all for the interest. The Blue thunder in the video is actually the factory test hack #2. It is using our prototype mechanic with actro 24-5 motor. About 570 KV. The tail motor and ESC is the stock one that comes with our kit, nothing special. The tail motor and the main motor are tied with a Y-harness and is flying on about 80% on throttle curve at idle up. The tail motor ESC has no governor function.
My Blue Thunder is not built yet. I have tested the tail with a different set up to the factory to get more data. On my tail I am using the factory supplied motor with a HobbyWing 80A platinum pro ESC and Futaba 520 gyro wityh Align 610 rudder servo.

Hope this helps !

PS The blue Thunder in the video is flying with a Mikado Vbar system.

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