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Robbe › Too much left rudder?
09-04-2003 10:51 PM  14 years agoPost 1
kevinbuckley70

rrApprentice

Oxfordshire, UK

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I got my Eolo airborne for the first time tonight - very scary for a beginner operating in the confines of my garden!!

I seem to have two problems:

Firstly, it won't lift off until well above centre stick (collective is set +4/+9/+14 as in the manual & the Robbe 825 ESC is set to 0%-100% corresponding with 0%-100% stick). I have a training gear fitted made from 4 x 2" polystyrene balls & 2 x 70cm CF rods. Is it likely that the weight of that is affecting the hovering pitch or motor power required?

Secondly, I can't stop it piroetting (how do you spell that word!?) to the left (anti-clockwise from above), even with full right rudder & trim.

The gyro seems to be operating in the correct sense & the servo also (i.e. if I give it full left rudder it rotates left even faster). However, if I just slide it around on the ground it seems to be setup about OK.

Is it likely that the fact that my collective stick is well above centre in the hover means the Tx. is putting in too much tail compensation?

The only other thing I could think of is that I used Ripmax SD200 servos instead of the recommended Futaba S3101's & maybe the position of the servo arm relative to the servo mounting holes is different (which would screw-up the TR pitch at the servo centre position).

Does anyone have the distance between the centre of the mounting hole & the centre of the servo arm on a 3101?

FWIW, the maximum time I've spent in the air in any single hover is about 5 seconds...

Is it likely that the tail rotor setting is OK & just too many other things haven't settled down in that short time?

Any help appreciated - Kevin

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09-04-2003 11:41 PM  14 years agoPost 2
JohnM

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Providence, RI - USA

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The stock motor is not very powerful and is heavy. What battery pack are you using? What gyro are you using?
I am a recent beginner and had my share of setup problems. I installed the tail rotor blades backwards after a tail re-build. This had some ill effects. I have also installed the main blades backwards too

Check the tail servo adjustment with it plugged directly into the RX (bypassing the Gyro).

A good safe way to setup the tail is to put the Eolo on smooth cement and spin up the heli so that it is almost lifting off the ground. Don't lift off the ground until the tail is holding steady.

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09-05-2003 12:08 AM  14 years agoPost 3
kevinbuckley70

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Oxfordshire, UK

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I'm swapping between 2 packs, both Sanyo - 2000mAh NiCAD & 3300mAh NiMH (weighs exactly 500g). Same problem in both cases.

Gyro is CSM ICG180 - tried it set with gain at both 50% & 100%. Makes no difference. Main & TR blades are correctly fitted according to the plans (& according to what they're supposed to do!).

If I spin-up the Eolo on my kitchen floor the tail does what I expect (& what my micro-heli used to do) - I can spin it left & right & at centre stick it pretty much stays put. It's only when I lift off (about 8 clicks above centre stick on my FF6 Tx.) that it mis-behaves.

Did you finally sort it out yourself?

Regards, Kevin

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09-05-2003 03:03 AM  14 years agoPost 4
psawya

rrKey Veteran

Woodinville, WA

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Check the orientation of your gyro. What you describe seems to be that your gyro is 90 degrees out of phase. You could be putting in gyro command from fore and aft cyclic inputs. The CSM180 should be standing up vertical on the thin edge, not laying flat on the widest side. Just a thought, I have seen this before. (don't ask)

Pete

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09-05-2003 07:18 AM  14 years agoPost 5
G.Man

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Bristol

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have you disabled revo mix?

this is rarely required today with modern gyros

Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)

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09-05-2003 07:22 AM  14 years agoPost 6
eagleye

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UK

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I was going to buy ff6 for my eola but was advised against it cos it doesnt do ccpm mixing not sure if thats true,but worth checkin

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09-05-2003 08:14 AM  14 years agoPost 7
kevinbuckley70

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Oxfordshire, UK

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Thanks for your suggestions so far. Taking them in order:

The Gyro is standing on it's square surface, not it's longer rectangular one. However, I did have to mount it "upside down" (compared with the label) to get the correct command sense. Anyone else out there using the CSM ICG180?

As the gyro is quite basic & does not have heading lock I expected to still need revo mix?

I did notice this morning that with the servo arm perpendicular to the tail boom the TR pitch control lever is angled towards the front of the heli. In the manual it shows them both perpendicular to the tail boom if you set the specified control rod length. So maybe my servo (Ripmax SD200) does have the control arm in a different place, compared to the mounting holes, than the Futaba S3101 that is recommended.

However, at first glance, that would seem to cause the heli. to turn to the right, not the left! (maybe I need to look at that again when I'm more awake.)

Regards, Kevin

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09-05-2003 09:26 AM  14 years agoPost 8
kevinbuckley70

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Oxfordshire, UK

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Sorry - I missed the comment about the FF6 not supporting CCPM.

You are partly correct - the older FF6 doesn't (as I found out to my cost after I'd bought the Eolo!). However the "s" version which I now have (& the "50th Anniversary" version) both support CCPM 1-3 (including 2 versions of CCPM3, one of which is suitable for the Eolo).

Regards, Kevin

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09-05-2003 01:17 PM  14 years agoPost 9
Sao

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UK

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To me it sounds like your Revo mix needs some work
IMHO

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09-05-2003 01:57 PM  14 years agoPost 10
kevinbuckley70

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Oxfordshire, UK

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I do wonder if the problem might be because it won't hover until waaaay above centre stick & so, in the hover, the Tx. is mixing in TR as if the heli. was ascending & needing TR compensation for the extra torque that would normally generate.

However in my mind this would seem to cause it to turn right (clockwise rotor, so extra anti-clockwise force from the TR to compensate = right turn).

Hmmm. Maybe the REVO setting on the Tx. above stick centre is set wrong & compensating in the wrong direction? I'll have to check that.

Is anyone flying the Eolo with a FF6 & stock setup? What Tx. settings are you using?

With the stock setup & a 500g 8-cell battery pack what pitch settings are you using to get it to hover with the collective stick at mid-position (min. max. & hover)?

Regards, Kevin

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09-05-2003 03:10 PM  14 years agoPost 11
JoeR

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western NY

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>>I did notice this morning that with the servo arm perpendicular to the tail boom the TR pitch control lever is angled towards the front of the heli. In the manual it shows them both perpendicular to the tail boom if you set the specified control rod length. So maybe my servo (Ripmax SD200) does have the control arm in a different place, compared to the mounting holes, than the Futaba S3101 that is recommended.<<

If I am understanding this correctly...
If the servo arm is not perpendicular you may not be getting full travel in the direction you need. Take your servo arm off and rotate so that it is perpendicular as directed, then push it back on. With luck the splines will allow the arm to be close to the perpendicular you need. If not use your trims/subtrims to set it perpendicular as directed.

I do not have an Eolo so I am not sure of the locations on all the parts. I do know it is important to maintain the 90 degree orientation - link to arm- to get the full and equal travel in each direction.

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09-06-2003 08:03 PM  14 years agoPost 12
kevinbuckley70

rrApprentice

Oxfordshire, UK

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Definitely the REVO was out (-70 above centre, -50 below).

For now I've set -25 above & below (actually what it recommends in the Eolo manual).

I've also set the 100% ESC point about 7 clicks above centre stick & it now hovers around center stick (at around 1200RPM) & trimmed the TR pitch control rod to account for the different dimensions of the servos I'm using.

Generally it now seems to be better (I suspect the main problem is the pilot, not the craft).

Sadly, whilst trying to spend more than 5 seconds at a time hovering in the garden today, it all went horribly wrong & I broke a main rotor blade by flying into the runner beans (they're growing up a brick wall unfortunately).

I've got some replacement blades on order (that was the only damage) but does anyone know if there are any other blades more generally available in the average UK model store that are also suitable?

It's also bad news for the vegetables for dinner tonight...

Regards, Kevin

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09-08-2003 01:53 AM  14 years agoPost 13
nofuelheli

rrApprentice

Roanoke VA, Usa

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Hey Kevin I am also attempting to use a csm gyro. hlg-200 I found out also that i needed to invert my gyro to get proper sense as well. I also am having problems with the tail just as you had described. It is quite a pain. Still have yet to figure it out. Let me know what you find out.
Matt

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09-12-2003 10:28 PM  14 years agoPost 14
kevinbuckley70

rrApprentice

Oxfordshire, UK

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Up...

YEEHAAA!!!

Sorry...

Fitted the HLG200 gyro (with Heading Hold) & et-voila! Hovering just fine.

Tail is solid as a rock (so one less thing to worry about as a total beginner), hovered through 2 packs in my modest garden (2000 & 3300 mAh) - didn't hit anything & didn't kill the beans like last time!

No problems with the previously uncontrollable yaw to the right (maybe that was pilot incompetence combined with badly set-up REVO...).

Setup is stock, out of the box:

- Throttle: 0/50/100/100/100 (so it hovers at centre stick)
- Pitch: +4/+9/+14
- Gyro: HLG200 - set to 50% (mounted upside down)
- REVO: all 0% (as in the HLG instructions)
- EXPO: 0% (I tried 20% originally but it was too insensitive)
- ESC: Robbe 825
- Servo's: RipMax SD200's - so all the control link lengths in the manual are out by about 1.5mm due to the SD200 servo arm being 1.5mm different in position to the Futaba S3101 (relative to the mounting lugs) that is recommended in the manual (the SD200 was about half the price of the S3101).

Everything else set at default (i.e. ATV 100%, all servo arms & control horns at 90 degrees at centre stick etc.).

Didn't need to trim the rudder due to HLG200 being a HH gyro & the cyclic didn't seem to need any trimming either.

Can't wait until tomorrow when the packs have recharged!

One thing I did notice whilst looking at the tail during hovering is that the TR gearbox has already rotated slightly in the boom. I'll add the screw-mod tomorrow to secure it.

Kevin

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09-12-2003 10:41 PM  14 years agoPost 15
jerrysimon

rrVeteran

Cambridge UK

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Kevin,

Excellent

I too use the SD200s.

I will make a note of your settings as I want to update my web site with some default settings for new Eolo users.

Not sure about inverting your Gyro mine is normal way up. But if it works

Regards

Jerry

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