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HelicopterOff Topics › Nitro vs. Electric
05-01-2011 09:14 PM  6 years agoPost 3821
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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And regarding my overall tone and attitude, I tend to get uppity when confronted with bucketload after bucketload of bull$h!t . . .
I can tell you're an engineer...I are one too.
Frustrating how a little information and lack of understanding creates such bucketloads....eh?
"Max" is - I want to know what *realworld* is . . . not a test in a lab!
Are you kidding. I would LOVE to see some lab testing. You don't even get that. All the eff. data you ever see is all theoretical....done on paper. LOL

Team POP Secret

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05-01-2011 09:22 PM  6 years agoPost 3822
Rogman88

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West Monroe, LA

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I know in my real world my logo and trex 600's kick some serious tail!

High Voltage just works better

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05-01-2011 09:28 PM  6 years agoPost 3823
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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More important is the demonstration of power that the electrics have been challenged to show for so long. An unmet challenge. Heck, now we're even seeing the peak power seems it is being beat by Nitros.
Is this a joke!
Oh, and for the guy who posted the links to some motor specs . . . notice that it says "Max efficiency"? It's kinda like your DSL, or other service these days with "Up to" in the spec . . . IE, plan to never see it in *YOUR* world . . . more BS marketing. I don't give a crap what "Max" is - I want to know what *realworld* is . . . not a test in a lab!
Do I need to show you a chart on this too? It is sad that someone who claims to be an EE has such a poor grasp on the characteristics of an electric motor.

As engineers, let me give both Tim and Bob a big I'm embarrassed for you emoticon.

Don't get your panties in a wad. Just stirring the pot!

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05-01-2011 09:33 PM  6 years agoPost 3824
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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+1 Band. I would have quit the hobby myself if it wasn't for the Logo 600. I was so tired of fixing my Trex700 every time I flew it. Bolts were constantly coming loose, gears stripped and clutches disintegrated. Then there was the hassle of replacing of bearings every couple on months on the OS91HZ. Now throw in the cost of nitro that I was going through at about $300/month. I think it is pretty easy to see why electric is the only way to go if you fly often.
You pick a brand with reams upon reams of known quality issues, and you blame the power system? Try not buying crap next time . . . . I have nitro Hirobos that are going on 7 years old, with *ZERO* maintenance needs (well, unless gravity bites them, but that is pretty rare . . . 5 years with no work is not uncommon . . .).

The OS91 (and OS engines in general) are known to be bearing shredders. I'm all YS, and also in that amount of time, have never changed a bearing. (I don't fly as much as some others, so likely that is also a factor, but YS tends to eat far less bearings than OS).

Bottom line is don't blame the power system for bad choices . . .

Oh, and bearings wear out in electric motors too . . .

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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05-01-2011 09:34 PM  6 years agoPost 3825
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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I have . . . more than once . . . far, far, FAR more diddling getting an ESC programed correctly for gov, etc. than ever on a nitro. Can't overcharge/overdischarge nitro .
More proof that Electric requires more "mental firepower" to do correctly!
As I have said before, I still have one electric - a pretty high end Align 450 SE2 with good parts, and I just hate the thing . . . . the *only* reason I keep it is if I travel, it's easy to throw in the car . . . otherwise, it never leaves the house
This I agree with, except I don't even have one any more!
if your goal is 4 minutes of insane wanking, then E may be the ticket
A 450 gets 4 mins, a 700 gets much better unless the HS is insane.
And regarding my overall tone and attitude, I tend to get uppity when confronted with bucketload after bucketload of bull$h!t . . .
A bit of advice: Don't read it if it stresses you out...stress is a killer!

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05-01-2011 09:35 PM  6 years agoPost 3826
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Are you kidding. I would LOVE to see some lab testing. You don't even get that. All the eff. data you ever see is all theoretical....done on paper. LOL
My point is that you can setup a totally non realistic test scenario and get a huge number for 2 milliseconds before it grenades, and then publish it . . . which is what is often done these days on a lot of products, and nitro engines are no exception there either.

My point is that unless the conditions of the spec are documented, and can be duplicated in use, then the spec is complete ca-ca . . .

A full test profile - torque/power vs. RPM would be useful, but would not sell as well, so I doubt we will ever see it, since it wouldn't look anywhere near as attractive.

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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05-01-2011 09:36 PM  6 years agoPost 3827
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Do I need to show you a chart on this too? It is sad that someone who claims to be an EE has such a poor grasp on the characteristics of an electric motor.
The motor specs themselves are not the entire picture - publish specs for an *entire* power system, and then you will be onto something that might actually be useful!

And I *do* understand motors quite well . . . which is why I call bull$h!t on blanket statements . . . magnetic fields can saturate, phase angles under load matter, etc. etc. etc. none of which is considered in the miniscule info that comes from the e-motor vendors.
Get into real high power, and with field saturation, and your efficiency drops like a rock, and that is typically where motors fail . . .

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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05-01-2011 09:41 PM  6 years agoPost 3828
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Don't get your panties in a wad. Just stirring the pot!
I don't wear panties....I fly Nitro

Team POP Secret

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05-01-2011 09:44 PM  6 years agoPost 3829
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More important is the demonstration of power that the electrics have been challenged to show for so long. An unmet challenge. Heck, now we're even seeing the peak power seems it is being beat by Nitros.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is this a joke!
Yes, it is, Bob's a total jokester! He's just stirring the pot!

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05-01-2011 09:46 PM  6 years agoPost 3830
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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You pick a brand with reams upon reams of known quality issues
Wow, Tim an I finally agree on something!

Actually, my Hirobo SDX with a NovaRossi Rex57 pounds so hard that it cracked the plastic frame...twice.

I have over 400 flights on an Xera 4030 motor and never had to change or oil the bearings.

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05-01-2011 09:50 PM  6 years agoPost 3831
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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You Know, you guys are free to fly what you want to fly, you don't have to prove anything to anyone !
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But what Fun would that be I also "heart" blade farts---electric or nitro.

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05-01-2011 09:50 PM  6 years agoPost 3832
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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You pick a brand with reams upon reams of known quality issues, and you blame the power system? Try not buying crap next time
HEY, you guys talkin' 'bout my TR 700's! I've been flyin' and flyin' and flyin' and flyin' them with no issues at all...but they are E's! However, I do know that some people can tear up an anvil in the middle of a plowed field...

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05-01-2011 09:51 PM  6 years agoPost 3833
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Interesting . . . my Hirobo's are the ones I can't break without ground contact . . .

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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05-01-2011 09:52 PM  6 years agoPost 3834
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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But what Fun would that be I also "heart" blade farts---electric or nitro.
But Doug, you can't hear them nearly as well with glow noise...

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05-01-2011 09:58 PM  6 years agoPost 3835
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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I have over 400 flights on an Xera 4030 motor and never had to change or oil the bearings.
so that would be equal to 200 nitro flights

if you want to keep that motor for a while you might want to oil those bearings

to those that say your always adjusting needles (more BS) I say get a carb smart

show us a dyno test !

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05-01-2011 10:11 PM  6 years agoPost 3836
tadawson

rrElite Veteran

Lewisville, TX

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But Doug, you can't hear them nearly as well with glow noise...
Consider a decent pipe or muffler . . . . nitro doesn't have to be loud, unless you want it to be . . .

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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05-01-2011 10:14 PM  6 years agoPost 3837
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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And I *do* understand motors quite well . . . which is why I call bull$h!t on blanket statements . . . magnetic fields can saturate, phase angles under load matter, etc. etc. etc. none of which is considered in the miniscule info that comes from the e-motor vendors.
Get into real high power, and with field saturation, and your efficiency drops like a rock, and that is typically where motors fail . . .
Bob/Tim, there is one absolute, and practical test that can prove the difference in power, it doesn't have to be in a lab...fly two well set up ships of the same brand with both power systems on them, but you'd have to find someone who had them both. And as batt tech continues to get better(I know Bob, you don't think it will) flight times will improve also...
And, BTW, if the maintenance and adjusting is part of your decision to dislike Nitro...that's fine too....just understand others put different weight on that.
No, M&A really isn't a problem, but the mini JH is. But the short answer is it became too boring to continue with! And I understand better than ever now that some people like to tinker with those mini rc glow engines. And I predict that as they become more and more rare, they may become even more interesting to tinker with.

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05-01-2011 10:20 PM  6 years agoPost 3838
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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And I predict that as they become more and more rare, they may become even more interesting to tinker with.
keep it up and you'll owe me a keyboard

best joke I heard yet

ps
can you even dyno test a e-motor with out it burning up ?

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05-01-2011 10:33 PM  6 years agoPost 3839
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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if you want to keep that motor for a while you might want to oil those bearings
My Xera motor went from my Logo 600 (10s) to my Aurora (12s) to my Trex 700E (12s) and has well over 500 flights. Never oiled the bearings, they will last a while as the Xera motor does not heat up like others. In easier to understand nitro terms.....it never ran lean!

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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05-01-2011 10:38 PM  6 years agoPost 3840
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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oh it never ran lean yet ! you're 1 lucky dude

but 500 flights only equals 250 nitro flights or 1 rear bearing and a ring

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