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HelicopterHIROBOOther › Freya Elevator Bounce
09-02-2003 04:23 PM  14 years agoPost 1
chirodb

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New York, NY

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Question:

When I give quick deflection of elevator, I get a little bounce. Similar to a tail wag when the gain is too high, but it wags up and down NOT side to side. Aileron is OK, it's crisp and sharp. I suspected slop, but all control surfaces are tight. I played with atv's and expo but I don't think it's the cause of the problem.

I'm running a FREYA 70, 9202's on AIL and ELE. 9402 on the Collective. 680 Thunder Tiger Blades, flybar with all inserts OUT.

AND NO! I don't NEED digitals!

THanks for the help...

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09-02-2003 04:26 PM  14 years agoPost 2
Vertical Limit

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Pennsylvania

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I would start by removing the links off of the elev. servo and move them back and forth by hand to full up and back and see if you feel and click or resistance at any point of the travel. You may have a link binding in the system somewhere. This is an easy way to check.

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09-02-2003 04:32 PM  14 years agoPost 3
byoung

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Grand Rapids, MI

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Weights

I have noticed that with all the weights out that my Freya/X-spec has quicker response, however you sacrafice stability. I believe that this is where you may be getting your bounce from. I typically run the stock paddles with the lead weights in them. This gives a paddle weight of around 27g.

In the last few days I have been playing with different paddles in the Freya.

V-Paddles - Very smooth but seem to be a little slower than the stock paddels. The weights with them were about 2" out. If I went in much more than that the machine developed some unstability.

Bergen paddles (16.8g and 18.1g) - with MA weights about 2" out this REALLY makes the Freya snappy, however it is pretty unstable. I am currently still testing these paddles and moving the weights out to see if I can find a happy medium.

I also am going to try MA 20g and 27g pro II k paddles in the next few days.

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09-02-2003 05:29 PM  14 years agoPost 4
FLYHOBO123

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B'ham AL.

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Bounce

Your bounce is caused by the weight of the Machine, due the Dampners bottoming out causing the machnics to swing backwards and forwards when you give a hard input, the reason you don't get from the Ail is because of the lack of weight from the center line unlike what you have from back to front of the Machine. This is nothing to worry about , but you do need to check your dampner bolts and dampners periodacly to make sure they are not loose or warn out.
I was talking to Jeff Green at Ircha and they are experimenting with harder Dampners which will help this situation.

Hope this helps Don Wade

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09-02-2003 05:40 PM  14 years agoPost 5
irq

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San Diego, CA

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I agree with flyhobo123. You may want to replace your dampeners with new ones and see if that makes the problem go away, that has worked for me in the past.

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09-02-2003 05:49 PM  14 years agoPost 6
traderdave2

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Covington, GA

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It sounds like soft head damping. Its pretty common. How far out are the balls on your elevator servo wheel/arm. What are you atv's 100+?

Harlan

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09-02-2003 06:19 PM  14 years agoPost 7
chirodb

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New York, NY

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Thanks Guys

I'll check the dampeners. I suspected that this may be the problem but quickly dismissed it because the machine has only 2 cases though it. Perhaps that's all it take to wear out dampeners?

traderdave2 : Dave, I am 13.5mm out from center with ATV's @ about 85. Hey DAVE, I remember you at CCRC about 3 years ago when I first started flying! You were flying an ERGO at the time. I'll never forget your help when I had my first Boom Strike. You got me flyin again the same day by hammering my raptor boom with the butt end of a screwdriver! I miss it down there. I took wide open space for granted. Good to hear from you.

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09-03-2003 12:04 AM  14 years agoPost 8
traderdave2

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Covington, GA

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I do spend some time at ccrc, I am not sure its me though. My only JR heli was a vigor cs. My memory isn't as sharp as it used to be.

Move your balls in so that they are 9.5mm(manual). This will give better resolution and a less slop and less strain on the servo.
Your atvs should be around 100-115 with the smaller servo wheel

Harlan

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09-03-2003 12:51 AM  14 years agoPost 9
NutsOnHelis

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Mc Lean, VA

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Oil the dampers

Try oiling the dampers. It worked on mine.

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09-03-2003 12:58 AM  14 years agoPost 10
CK_

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Redondo Beach, CA

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Make sure you don't use a petroleum based oil on the dampers or they will deteriorate very quickly. I use silicone o-ring grease from a scuba dive shop.

Chris

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09-03-2003 05:31 AM  14 years agoPost 11
irq

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San Diego, CA

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At the West Coast Hirobo Cup, Jeff Green told me not to oil or grease the dampers whatsoever. To this I said "What about sliding them in?" He said to use spit, and just a little bit, to get them into place. Other than that, no lubrication.

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09-03-2003 04:10 PM  14 years agoPost 12
Zach Sparks

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Norton Shores, MI

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Tune in Jeff, lets hear it direct!!

If that is true irq than JG should be sharing this with everyone here and explain why not to use the oil when the manual says to oil them. Unless of course the difference is so trivial that it really does not matter. In that case than the info he passed on to you is a personal preference rather than a necessary change.

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09-03-2003 05:01 PM  14 years agoPost 13
breedatrad

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NW PA

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Maybe Dampers but...

Check that your 0414-133 Elevator Torque Lever Pivot's set screws haven't come loose. It's not obvious under light loading (like checking for slop in your ball links) but becomes noticeable when really torquing on it (like in flight). This happened to me and made the machine seem constantly out of trim.

Brian

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09-03-2003 05:01 PM  14 years agoPost 14
Daniel Santana

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Tampa, Fl

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Yep... This elevator bounce seems to be "normal" in the Freya. I first noticed it when I installed the TDG head and assumed it was that. To my surprise, after messing with it for a week (changing dampners, heads, paddels, links, elevator servo/arm, even the swash) My local field rep brought his X-spec out, guess what it does it to. The other X-specs and Freya's at the field (about 10... all do it too)

Now it only does this when fast elevator input is given and returned to nuetral verry quickly. If smooth elevator input is given is does not bounce. I must of been testing the new head slightly differently then I normally do.

So Jeff, how abou those new dampners?

-Daniel

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09-03-2003 06:48 PM  14 years agoPost 15
MRC-Hirobo

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Edison, NJ

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Hey,

Yep that is a personal preference and not a "Factory" recommendation. Lubing the dampners will make them soft and hover better at lower head speeds, but I was looking for as tight a dampner as possibly avaiable. The saliva trick just helped me slip them guys into the head better especially on the metal yoke. Old trick I learned from a very good friend.

The new dampners are coming and from the way they are holding up may be the only dampner you will ever need. Only time will tell. They will be more than the stock ones but should out last them as well. Look for them at your local hobby shop. Augusto tells me he will be selling them to the stores only. At the present moment they will not be available thru MRC/Altech. This is his project. and a good one at that.

Jeff

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09-03-2003 08:54 PM  14 years agoPost 16
aeromorris

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Murfreesboro, TN

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While everyone's talking about dampners and lubing them. Could someone please explain from a physics standpoint what the purpose of lubing the dampners is. I only lube mine enough to get the dampners in position. Lube is generally used to limit friction but in this case there isn't any, only compression of the rubber... Just curious.
-J

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09-03-2003 09:43 PM  14 years agoPost 17
FLYHOBO123

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B'ham AL.

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Greasing Dampners

The reason for greasing them is, they will compress and push the grease out and even somtimes get dirt/dust in them. So to keep them from sticking and and/or moving the same (which induces wabble) you should clean and grease them every now and then. You are correct about friction and all that stuff but what we are trying to do is get the Dampner to move evenly inside the metal ring on the Yoke plus in this case it has a metal insert in the middle of it, which can also stick. When I grease my dampners I roll the rubber of the metal center and aplly a thin layer of lube then but the rubber back on lube it then re-enstall it back in the Head Yoke. This works for me maybe it will work for you.
Don Wade

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09-04-2003 04:56 PM  14 years agoPost 18
breedatrad

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NW PA

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Hey Jeff/Augusto,

Tell me more about these new dampeners. My thought was to have the OD of the dampener bonded to a metal ring as well, so that the rubber would be compressing on one side AND stretching on the other, at the same time. This would keep it from "gapping" on the stretch-side and distribute the forces more-evenly throughout the unit.

Brian

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10-06-2003 07:10 PM  14 years agoPost 19
rmkjersey

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Jersey - UK

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SST Freya - Unstable - Rocking

I've just built an SST Freya, which has an os 61 fitted.

It flew great for its 1st few flights and was totally stable.

Now it is very difficult to fly and is very unstable. The main sympton occurs with a large tail input. The heli rocks to one side and stablizes again.

What is causing this and why has it become unstable.

I have tried various head speeds but the problem occurs all the time.

For the hover I have set -2, 6, and 10 for the pitch.

Help.

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10-07-2003 02:02 AM  14 years agoPost 20
RotorheadBob

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Wash DC Metro Area

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Elevator Rocking

One more thought: the elevator set screw may be a tad loose. I had this problem once which caused a problem with my elevator. Worth a look...

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HelicopterHIROBOOther › Freya Elevator Bounce
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