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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Futaba's New GY750 system at tower with price.
02-16-2011 01:37 AM  6 years agoPost 61
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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I sat through the Gy750 presentation at E-Fest given primarily by Bobby Watts and assisted by Matt Botos and Kyle Stacy.
The adapter for us non Futaba users is coming but nothing known beyond that. Bobby speculated it would be in the $60 range.
It appears very simple to set-up and adjust, even easier than 3G or V-Bar 5.0.
The only thing that struck me as a possible complaint is the power bus setup. It is basically the same as the 3G that everybody really hammered on. One wire feeds power to the rx and then there is one wire from the rx to the GY750. So, all servos are getting their power via one standard servo plug from battery to RX. Bobby said it has been working just fine on his 90 size machines even with the HV servos on 8V.
I ran my 3G on my 700 all last season on the stock setup so I know it works for me(knock on wood).
Hopefully I'll get a chance very soon to get my hands on one and install it in a Fury 55.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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02-16-2011 02:07 AM  6 years agoPost 62
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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The only thing that struck me as a possible complaint is the power bus setup. It is basically the same as the 3G that everybody really hammered on. One wire feeds power to the rx and then there is one wire from the rx to the GY750. So, all servos are getting their power via one standard servo plug from battery to RX.
If you insist on have multiple power inputs, there's a way to get dual or even triple power feeds to this and other FBL systems (as long as the power in the FBL system is a shared bus). If you use a regulator or a certain type of soft switch that goes between the servos and the RX/FBL system, 2/3 power feeds will be on the FBL system while passing power to the RX.

See diagrams below (substitute vbar w/other FBL system like the CGY750)

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02-16-2011 11:13 AM  6 years agoPost 63
Ben-T-Spindle

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Central Illinois

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You could just get a Skookum Power Bus if you have a very large helicopter. Maybe Futaba will offer a Power Bus in the future.

... BTS

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02-16-2011 01:26 PM  6 years agoPost 64
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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As Bobby stated, all who have been using this system have had NO power issues at all. It would be interested to check in with some of the giant scale guys who are using S.Bus with many more servos than what we are using. They are distributing power over a much longer connection than anyone.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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02-16-2011 01:36 PM  6 years agoPost 65
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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As Bobby stated, all who have been using this system have had NO power issues at all. It would be interested to check in with some of the giant scale guys who are using S.Bus with many more servos than what we are using. They are distributing power over a much longer connection than anyone
+1 exactly. No additional power inputs required If you've ever seen how he flies the 700 with only 1 power input you'd change your opinion on needing more Don't think we really "need" more. My post on how to hook up more was purely informational.

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02-16-2011 02:57 PM  6 years agoPost 66
Helico-pteron

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Glenview, Illinois

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Large scale guys use a power distributor.

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02-16-2011 03:02 PM  6 years agoPost 67
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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I was just pointing it out as all the 3G haters were making such a big deal over it when 3G first came out. My guess is Futaba design= OK and 3G=grossly inadequate even though it is the same basic power bus.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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02-16-2011 03:15 PM  6 years agoPost 68
blade3d

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New Jersey USA

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Your very expensive Heli hanging on one wire hmmmmm

Blade3d

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02-16-2011 04:10 PM  6 years agoPost 69
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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It has been demonstrated through field testing and data logging that peak current demand in a 90 class flybarred heli is only 3A-4A. These are extremely brief peaks and typical current draw is closer to 0.4A. Please don't ask me to tell you where to find this info. Do a search yourself.

On a FBL heli the peak current demand will go up somewhat, so lets go with 6A on that to be conservative. The peaks last no more than 0.10 second. Anyone with 90/700 class FBL heli logged data, please feel free to provide it.

Servo type connectors are rated for about 3A continuous. That doesn't mean that above 3A they fail. They could probably go for 5 seconds or more at 6A of current before melting and failing. Same with the wiring. Heavy gauge servo wiring in short lengths as in our helis is not going to fail at 6A.

The conclusion is that there is no need for a double connection due to current demand. I do agree with Blade3D's implied warning though. Redundancy is valuable in a complex system. Do we really want to trust our helis to a single electrical failure point? I don't. That's why I always use a double power connection on my V-Bars. One goes to the RX and the other to the V-Bar. I will do the same with the CGY750 when I get mine.

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02-16-2011 04:17 PM  6 years agoPost 70
rstacy

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Rochester, NY

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Your very expensive Heli hanging on one wire hmmmmm
All helicopters (ours included) are hanging on one wire somewhere in the system. For example, our receiver battery is a single wire output. Our BEC is a single wire input...
I don't think it is that big of a deal.

We choose to use dual power output connectors. One to supply power to the CGY750 and the other for the receiver.

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02-16-2011 04:39 PM  6 years agoPost 71
RCHeliJim

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Orem, UT USA

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Not to mention that each servo, gyro sensor, etc. are also single wire inputs - the loss of any results in a crash in most cases. No matter how redundant we try to run our power systems, you can find multiple possible "single wire failure points" on a model. Just part of the hobby - regardless of what system you use Pre-flights and proper care as always are important.

Looking forward to trying out a 750



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK

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02-16-2011 04:49 PM  6 years agoPost 72
blade3d

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New Jersey USA

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Point taken guys fly don't think

Blade3d

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02-16-2011 05:16 PM  6 years agoPost 73
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Actually, I think the point was missed by some! It is not an issue of a single wire that is the problem. It is the single connector that may be problematic. Any connector that can be plugged and unplugged has a significant chance of failure. Servo connectors are not the most failsafe way to connect power to the system. Having two of them provides that extra level of safety.

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02-16-2011 05:19 PM  6 years agoPost 74
RCHeliJim

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Orem, UT USA

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Point well taken, I always use two power inputs whenever possible. My Logo 500 has both power leads from my Perfect Regulator going into the VBar and when I try a 750 I plan to do the same.



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK

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02-16-2011 06:13 PM  6 years agoPost 75
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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If time and weather cooperate for tomorrow, I'll hang my Eagletree unit on my 700 3G and my V-barred 550 and get some current draw readings. Something I meant to do back when I first got it going.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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02-16-2011 06:49 PM  6 years agoPost 76
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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Just another reason to use one of the CC Ice controllers. All that logging is built in.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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02-16-2011 08:35 PM  6 years agoPost 77
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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Not much use for an ICE on a nitro heli. MY 550 still has the stock ESC but will get an ICE when it needs one.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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02-17-2011 02:10 AM  6 years agoPost 78
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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Weather smiled this afternoon! I got my 700 3G out for a few flights with my Eagletree unit onboard. I put a flight where I did a lot of fast pitch pumping and "crack" type moves trying to pump up the current draw.
My 700 is box stock with the stock Align servos running a bit larger lipo on the stock Align regulator. Max amps recorded was 3.81. It frequently got to 3 amps and pretty much stayed at least 1 amp.
I have heard that the Align servos are power hungry but I won't worry about them anymore!
I'd say one wire is sufficient and doubling up the cables will provide a decent measure of redundancy at least in the RX/FBL controller area.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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02-17-2011 05:41 AM  6 years agoPost 79
human213

rrVeteran

malibu

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Emcotec dpsi

The power and redundancy issues disappear.

These have electronic on off switch, non mechanical, and 50 amp peak
capability.

I have been using for over 10 years without any falures to date on
12 plus servo helis, 20-30 kg weight; (gang swash set-ups). The magic six is compact and very reliable, but all of them work well.

Also, here is an interesting viewpoint on S bus and financial
anti competitive practices....

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/futabasbus.shtml

M

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.

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02-17-2011 07:19 AM  6 years agoPost 80
nickmcdonald

rrNovice

new lenox, il

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While the article was an intersting point of view the un-named author clearly has lost sight of a few facts. First, 10 high torque servos are not going to pull 20 to 30 amps as he starts off his scare campaign. As we've seen in our own tests, and from what Matt shared above, a 5 servo helicopter is pulling at most 4A total. Even if we eliminate the throttle servo as a cause of major drain, we're only talking 1A peaks per servo, with an average load of 0.25A per. Doing the math here that would mean an average load of 2.5A with peaks of 10A. Quite different from the quoted 20-30A load. Put another way, that 20A load would obliterate a 4000mah pack in 10 minutes. How many big scale plankers have you seen putting in a full charge after each flight?

Second point, does the author fail to remember how much 8 and 9 channel 72mhz reciever were before 2.4ghz came out? Guess what, they were the exact same price, if not more. The R149DP went for $159.99 back in 2005 (Way Back Machine). And you still needed a crystal and module on top of that. Want synthesized, you'd be looking at $189.99 plus a module. And don't even get started on the latency or bad crystals. Fact is that we have better performance now at a cheaper price. I certainly don't see people complaining about $500 iPhones that cost a $187.51 to make. I also don't see Futaba selling 90 million of anything R/C related in 4 years. It costs money to design and manufacter. While there may only be $10 worth of actual hardware in a receiver, how much are you willing to chimp on production costs?

Third point. What's with the huge conspiracy theory. "The end of industry standards" I certainly don't remember a time when I could use a JR radio to control my Futaba reciever. How is all the "Bind & Fly" crap any different than Futaba's supposed "lock-in tactics"? Things have always been this way. Just because JR, Futaba, Hitec and Airtronics all decided to come up with their own way of doing 2.4ghz doesn't mean Futaba is trying to make a standard. It simply means that each company is trying to innovate in the market in their own way. And the S-Bus system is no different. Futaba is trying to solve a problem. I don't personally agree with it, but to each his own. On FBL heli's I think it's a great idea, anywhere else it sounds like more headache and cost that what we currently have.

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Futaba's New GY750 system at tower with price.
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