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12-14-2011 03:14 AM  5 years agoPost 9961
outhouse

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thanks for this post from reason and logic
Hi Guys,

I don't usually jump into this kind of stuff, because you can't use reason to talk someone out of a belief that they didn't come to by reason. Religious belief comes about from an emotional need, be it that we all live happily ever after in an after life ( no one really wants to believe this is the end of everything when we die ), or the hope that we get to see our long lost relatives in a happy afterlife (I believe the Egyptians were one of the first cultures to come up with this concept), or that some all-powerful being is looking out for us in this life and if we do the 'right' thing he will take care of us. Just so you know, I would love for there to be a happy afterlife, I lost both of my parents at fairly young ages and I would absolutely love to believe I will see them when I die. Just because I want to believe it does not make it so.

From seeing what synodontis has written I think it is highly unlikely that he is going to strap on a vest and harm anyone. That is usually the work of religious zealots. He seems to be speaking from a very rational position. If anyone thinks we aren't 'just' animals they are thinking that from a purely egotistical perspective. It's the 'we are special' perspective. The more we learn from science the more rational people realize we really aren't so special. We weren't created from sand and women weren't created from a rib. We aren't at the center of the universe, hell we're not even at the center of our solar system Our morality has evolved (I know, Christians hate the word) it is not something handed down from on high. Slavery was once condoned by Christians it no longer is (by most people), but that didn't occur because Christians got a new message from on high. It occurred because people's sense of morality evolved. Christians in the south were morally fine with slavery as it profited them greatly. They even used the bible to justify slavery. Morality is nothing more than a social construct that has evolved over a very long period of time.

Reading the bible and reading the bible critically are two completely different things. I would advise the second method. The commandment 'thou shalt not kill' was quickly overturned by Moses as soon as he descended from his one on one meeting with god. Upon seeing the golden calf he instructed one of his followers to gather one Jewish tribe and run through the other Jewish tribe with their swords, men, women, and children. On that day, so the story goes, roughly 3000 (may not have the count exactly correct) fell. This is nothing compared to the god commanded rape, bashing of babies against stone walls, and I'm just beginning with the atrocities committed in the name of god. The Jews received the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment and soon after went out to what was to become their 'promised land' and slaughtered those who already lived in their promised land. One thing to note about the Moses story is that there is absolutely no evidence that the Jews ever were enslaved in Egypt, not one iota.

For all the Christians who think they are saved, what makes them think they have even chose the right religion? What if Islam is the right one and Christians rolled the dice and lost because they should have chosen Islam. What if the Aztec gods are the real creator's, what if the Nordic gods are the real gods, what if...the list goes on and on. Christians are Christians primarily because they grew up in a Christian culture. Take the time to widen your tunnel vision and learn about other religions, other mythologies, and other cultures. If you actually take the time to do this you will soon realize that Christianity is not special, nor original. The Christ story itself is not even original. Many cultures had/have a story of a savior god born of a virgin who was brought into the world to save it.

Another aspect of critical reading I mentioned above would be to read the gospels critically, the stories don't even align on important facts. You would think for a book that is completely factual, infallible, and is THE written word of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving god (although he states he is a jealous god) it would at least have conforming stories between the witnesses, it doesn't. The creation stories don't align with one another either. They are filled with reams of factual errors (bats are birds is just one). The creation story was a way for people to explain things they had no understanding of. It is much easier to just say the world was created in 7 days and man was created out of sand into which the creator breathed life than it is to actually try and understand the scientific facts behind creation and evolution.

I'll end it here as I could go on, I love writing and discussing this, but inevitably someone takes offense to it because they perceive it as attacking who they are. I don't attack anyone for their beliefs, I understand the emotional impetus and need behind religion. I just ask them to read, learn, and be as rational about their beliefs as they are in most other aspects of their life. It's very easy to compartmentalize our thoughts and beliefs. I know many very intelligent people, doctors, engineers who think very rationally in most everything they do in their everyday lives, but when it comes to religion, they don't even question it for a moment because of the emotional need it fulfills. I understand it, I have a sister who suffers from depression and she is just waiting to die, doesn't take care of her failing health (and she could, she has nothing terminal) because she thinks she will go on to see my mom and dad in an afterlife.

None of this was meant to offend anyone, just to provoke meaningful thought. If you couldn't tell, I'm an a-theist, just like I am an a-easter bunnyist, an a-elfist, and an a-santa clausist. I am as moral as any Christian and more so than many (our prisons are filled with the saved). I love my family, and friends and treat people respectfully, all this without having to be threatened by some all-powerful being who promises me eternal happiness if I just be good.

I do hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season and all the best in the coming new year.

Best regards

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12-14-2011 03:16 AM  5 years agoPost 9962
outhouse

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auburn ca

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s is our deliverer whitout him' your heart will be trouble. you will be tormented.
Oh so wrong

the world has a population of over 6 billion.

only 2 billion follow yeshua.

this means the majority of the world thinks your dead wrong, as I do.

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12-14-2011 03:20 AM  5 years agoPost 9963
outhouse

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the creater never ask any man to believe in him, because no man have seen him, but rather believe in jesus because he walk the earth,
no one come to the father but trough the jesus, we pray to jesus
and he will pray to the father'
jesus is not the almighty god, not one christian can tell you about the almighty unless it was told by the son,
You dont have the biblical knowledge to be quoting such garbage.

Im sorry but god appeared to some of the founding fathers in OT scripture.

yeshua is dead and hes not coming back

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12-14-2011 03:48 AM  5 years agoPost 9964
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Place to Start - The 1st Day of the Rest of Your Life ; w / Not a Divided Mind

Matthew 6:24-25
(KJV)

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

OR :

Psalm 133
(KJV)

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

OR :

Romans 9:27
(KJV)

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Philippians 1:6
KJV)

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Colossians 1:15-20
KJV

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

What is Christmas ? If their without CHRIST :King of Glory !!!

DO Not Fall Asleep under the Christmas Light's !!

Isaiah 43:3-13
(KJV)

For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.

Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

It's OK to Loose your Faith : Just do NOT loose sight of HIM !!
Never Forget Your Sense of Presence !!!!!

While OUR Country Sleeps: History is going down in Bethlehem while a KING of king's is being born among the animal's.

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

greyeagle

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12-14-2011 04:41 AM  5 years agoPost 9965
Gearhead

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flyinfriend,, I will tell you the same thing I tried to get the other non-believers here to understand,,

God is NOT in your head !! !!

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-14-2011 04:53 AM  5 years agoPost 9966
outhouse

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your three first words were spot on

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12-14-2011 05:26 AM  5 years agoPost 9967
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Even with your Secular Written: WE -Ki - Media: you'r a Mess + Out House

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

greyeagle

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12-14-2011 05:54 AM  5 years agoPost 9968
Life_Nerd

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USA

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Word

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12-14-2011 06:11 AM  5 years agoPost 9969
GREYEAGLE

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Scoyle : YOU GET AN A + !!! You Just Mashed IT out of the PARK !!!

Well Done in DEED :

"WORD" = LOGOS

One of the Most Important titles of Christ !

GOD's revelation of Himself to Humanity !

Deep Philosophy - Be IT Jewish - Roman - Greek ect.
Lot's of stuff their ole bud Well Done !

The LORD’s Covenant With Abram
After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:

“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,[a]
your very great reward.[b]”

greyeagle

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12-14-2011 09:50 AM  5 years agoPost 9970
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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God is NOT in your head !! !!
no, but he might be found up your . . .

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12-14-2011 11:41 AM  5 years agoPost 9971
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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God is NOT in your head !! !!
no, but he might be found up your . . .
Flyfriend here is your common comrade here

Maybe you should read more here before making fast friends it will make you look ferhoodled!

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12-14-2011 12:07 PM  5 years agoPost 9972
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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Maybe you should read more here before making fast friends it will make you look ferhoodled!
Thomas, talking sense to you does not work.

making fun of you does.

now go and make a nuisance of yourself elsewhere.

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12-14-2011 12:13 PM  5 years agoPost 9973
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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did you say "ferhoodled"?

really?

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12-14-2011 06:10 PM  5 years agoPost 9974
BDIS

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Valdosta, Ga

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The creation stories don't align with one another either. They are filled with reams of factual errors (bats are birds is just one
If you are referring to Lev. 11:13, 19
"And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;15 Every raven after his kind;16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."

I'm sure you would agree that Scientific classifications of animals was not available in old testament times and is a rather recent implementation by science correct?

Classification back then was done via form or function. Even the word that bird was translated from actually means, "owner of a wing". 'owph, whose ROOT word means to cover or to fly.

I'm sure you would also agree that a Bat does in fact have wings and does fly?

I would imagine that the "reams" of "factual errors" you refer to if looked at closely aren't errors at all.
One thing to note about the Moses story is that there is absolutely no evidence that the Jews ever were enslaved in Egypt, not one iota.
Historians also used to say that King David and Solomon never existed as well as other historical figures in the Bible, but we know now that he was a real person. Just because we haven't "dug the physical evidence up" does not mean it does not exist. All it takes is one archeological find.

Again, you can't look at the bible, read a page or two, and then decide. It takes a lifetime to study. And really, in the grand scheme of Gods whole plan, these minor misinterpretations don't do anything to change the gospel.

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12-14-2011 06:10 PM  5 years agoPost 9975
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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SKS = AKA = SYNODONTIS

Synodontis is the largest genius of catfishes

Siluriformes of Mochokidae from Pond of Ferhoodelville

Known as squeakers, when handled or disturbed.

Are ( small - known) Ref : Medulla Obbligato's

Ding a LIng -- A DING --- dONG DING !!! [ Jingle Ball's ]

Naturally swimming belly-up, earning the name upside-down

MAKES PERFECT SENSE !

A

{{{{{{{{{squeaker}}}}}}}}}

greyeagle

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12-14-2011 06:18 PM  5 years agoPost 9976
outhouse

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LOL john 1-1 is no example

said group of authors never met or knew yeshua or heard one word pass the mans lips

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12-14-2011 06:25 PM  5 years agoPost 9977
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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Grey, you've never really kept much fish have you?

because if you did you would not be making the superficial, amateurish and totally ignorant comments that you do.

still, it tells me that you are ready to jump to conclusions way too fast, and prone be believe in the stuff that you read.

the rest of us take a little longer to think things through.

not to worry, eh, since the park ranger is going to pay you a visit.

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12-14-2011 06:31 PM  5 years agoPost 9978
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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It takes a lifetime to study.
if it were for a respected field I would commend you on your efforts and dedication.

alas, since you are talking about the Bible, and you are studying it with the view to strengthen your conviction of "God" I am obliged to call you a total, utter moron. I should say sorry for being so forthright and blunt, but I do not, because the reason is that you've wasted time and most of your life on a pointless piece of trash.

flyfriend PMed me telling me how he got to his position on this matter which was totally different to mine, but it does not matter, both conclusions held up because of the objections.

if you want to spend/waste your life on a fool's errand that's your business.

still it doesn't matter anyway, what's one squirrel's life in the grand scheme of things.

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12-14-2011 08:07 PM  5 years agoPost 9979
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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What are you talking about ???

It takes a lifetime to study.
if it were for a respected field I would commend you on your efforts and dedication.
ARE YOU DISCUSSING CAT FISH FARMING ????

We have a few of those down in the Southern State's - I think they hand toss out some type of kibble water goe's nut's.

Aroun here we raise HOG's and Cattle : Some operations larger than 8000 head travel thru weekly. We eat them critters like PIE
We do have some Chi-ken's but those are only for the bone's under the truck seat.

hECK :we don't even use Cat Fish for bait - and far as actively fishing for them ???the latest rage here in the United States is to Noodle for them, which doesn't require the use of any tackle but it's pretty whirly if you watch them do it .

Never heard a CatFish Squeek until now : but have seen a Bull Head swim around on the surface up side down - " belly Up" we don't even bother with them. Taste like Mud

AMAZING !
flyfriend PMed me telling me how he got to his position on this matter which was totally different to mine, but it does not matter, both conclusions held up because of the objections.
Surprized you have one ! Think the total is ???? {3}??
not to worry, eh, since the park ranger is going to pay you a visit.
Looking forward too it I have my taxe's paid, my stamp, my registration's, the licenses and I.D. Send at least TWO -
I'll be the One Holding the Bag Have them wear a harness

greyeagle

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12-14-2011 08:18 PM  5 years agoPost 9980
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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Looking forward too it I have my taxe's paid, my stamp, my registration's, the licenses and I.D. Send at least TWO -
I'll be the One Holding the Bag Have them wear a harness
that's all very well, Grey, but the thing that's on most people's minds is why are you still awake?

I mean, it's the hibernation season isn't it?

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