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12-13-2011 12:23 PM  5 years agoPost 9921
Dusty1000

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Glasgow, U.K.

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not true. Thomas gave no real answer. He ducked the question. It's only pointless if its vacuous and leads nowhere, whereas the point made is a very important one that BDIS and Thomas have not really addressed.
I don't pay much attention to anything DEET says. Like a typical raccoon, he doesn't miss an opportunity to try to bite my ankles, but his attempts are pathetic enough to be amusing.

Watch at YouTube

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12-13-2011 03:08 PM  5 years agoPost 9922
BDIS

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Valdosta, Ga

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Only when you cherry pick words.
Not cherry picking at all. Keep in mind that if you think that since we think the bible is true we are biased when we read it, what does that make your study when you believe it to be false when YOU read it?

You are trying so hard to prove your point that you are not getting what anyone is trying to tell you. Even in the commentary you posted they are saying that this is a vision used to portray how God will resurrect peoples and bring them together during end times.

The point I am trying to make and it's the reason I don't reply allot of times until a few days later is you have to take time to really study the entire bible and not just a few verses. If I read a verse that doesn't make since to me, I book mark it and come back later after I have read other verses. You will notice that verses in one chapter will relate or correlate to others verses in other chapters.

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12-13-2011 03:14 PM  5 years agoPost 9923
BDIS

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Valdosta, Ga

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If your God wants something from me he can talk to me himself instead of me having to hear it from all you deluded morons who claim to speak for him.
He would if you would let him. The question is, would you listen?

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12-13-2011 03:33 PM  5 years agoPost 9924
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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He would if you would let him. The question is, would you listen?
what, after being pointed in the "right" directions by you idiots??????!!!

you make claims that you can't prove, and you never did. this is not even about me, it's about independent verification.

there has been no independent verification of your "God", only hearsay, speculation, inference with a lot of artistic license thrown in. If you had produced this independent verification there would not be any atheists anymore. Do you get that point, BDIS, or are you just going to talk in useless circles again?

tell you what, they could do with a squirrel in this march here.

Watch at YouTube

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12-13-2011 03:46 PM  5 years agoPost 9925
BDIS

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Valdosta, Ga

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I take it that means your answer would be no.
what, after being pointed in the "right" directions by you idiots??????!!!
The only thing I have pointed you to is the bible. I have no control over your decisions, nor would I want it.

Again, a person's salvation is not my decision.

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12-13-2011 03:56 PM  5 years agoPost 9926
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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Again, a person's salvation is not my decision.
you see how obedient those geese are up there? all you have to do is provide the marching sounds and they comply, isn't that nice?

I find it arrogant and moronic that you talk of "salvation" when there are people who will never hear of this concept in their entire lives.

other cultures have imaginary "dangers" too, the reason why they are ignored is the same reasons why your silliness is ignored.

now make yourself useful and join that parade.

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12-13-2011 04:34 PM  5 years agoPost 9927
BDIS

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Valdosta, Ga

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I find it arrogant and moronic that you talk of "salvation" when there are people who will never hear of this concept in their entire lives.
The bible covers this issue. You merely have to read it to find it. (IF you honestly want to know)

You still haven't answered the question:
Where do you get your Moral basis from? What happens when your moral basis differs from someone elses?

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12-13-2011 04:41 PM  5 years agoPost 9928
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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The bible covers this issue. You merely have to read it to find it. (IF you honestly want to know)
no it doesn't, it's a circular construct which is basically fascism in it's purest form: follow us or you die. There is no justification for it whatsoever and nothing that upholds it, just words that some people decide to get deluded by.
Where do you get your Moral basis from? What happens when your moral basis differs from someone elses?
animals aren't really moral in the strict sense. neither are we in the strict sense. but logically if someone is going to threaten me (in our case my soul going to hell etc. . .) they better have more than "words" to back it up. words on paper mean nothing unless there is possible and clear force behind. same with you and your Bible talk - you have words, no force, no credibility - nothing. if you choose to believe in this retarded nonsense then that's your business, not mine. (and if you look at international affairs this is how its done).

the sensible amongst us know that all because something is written in some book doesn't mean it's true, or should even be taken seriously. you lot decided to be clicker trained and to follow your marching orders not bothering to ask why, very much like those obedient geese in that parade above.

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12-13-2011 05:00 PM  5 years agoPost 9929
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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animals aren't really moral in the strict sense. neither are we in the strict sense. but logically if someone is going to threaten me (in our case my soul going to hell etc. . .) they better have more than "words" to back it up. words on paper mean nothing unless there is possible and clear force behind. same with you and your Bible talk - you have words, no force, no credibility - nothing. if you choose to believe in this retarded nonsense then that's your business, not mine. (and if you look at international affairs this is how its done).

the sensible amongst us know that all because something is written in some book doesn't mean it's true, or should even be taken seriously. you lot decided to be clicker trained and to follow your marching orders not bothering to ask why, very much like those obedient geese in that parade above
The stuff that your are typing doesn't seem to come from a person
who's part of human/nature you need to be on observation list,
the stuff you-re typing show you are a danger to your self and everything around you. your way of thinking is too radical. There's no god there's no love there's no affection" man' are you for real
i hope you not planning to get on bus with one of those vest on....
trying to take the easy way out' and take other with you,

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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12-13-2011 05:22 PM  5 years agoPost 9930
Dusty1000

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Glasgow, U.K.

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Not cherry picking at all.
So do you accept that it says dead people will be resurrected?
Keep in mind that if you think that since we think the bible is true we are biased when we read it, what does that make your study when you believe it to be false when YOU read it?
Just for starters, it says that in the beginning, God created man, fruit bearing trees, and grasses. Yet we know from fossil evidence that humans, fruit bearing trees and grasses, did not appear until relatively recently. So right from the start, we have proof that the Bible is not literally true.

In any case, the question here is not whether it's true or not, but rather what it says. And what it says, among other things, is that dead people will be resurrected.
You are trying so hard to prove your point that you are not getting what anyone is trying to tell you. Even in the commentary you posted they are saying that this is a vision used to portray how God will resurrect peoples and bring them together during end times.
Yes, but it also says that dead people will be resurrected. I notice you didn't answer the question.

Where do you think the Jewish belief in resurrection comes from, if not the Torah?

Dusty

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12-13-2011 05:26 PM  5 years agoPost 9931
Dusty1000

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Glasgow, U.K.

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You still haven't answered the question:
Where do you get your Moral basis from? What happens when your moral basis differs from someone elses?
Our morals come from the societies we live in, and change over time. For example, the morals expressed in the Bible deem slavery to be acceptable, yet slavery is no longer morally acceptable in our societies today.

Dusty

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12-13-2011 05:30 PM  5 years agoPost 9932
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Our morals come from the societies we live in, and change over time. For example, the morals expressed in the Bible deem slavery to be acceptable, yet slavery is no longer morally acceptable in our societies today.
Actually, a large portion of your morals, and ours, comes from the 10 Commandments.

Like it or not dusty.

Don't matter.

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12-13-2011 05:53 PM  5 years agoPost 9933
Dusty1000

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Glasgow, U.K.

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Actually, a large portion of your morals, and ours, comes from the 10 Commandments.
The 10 commandments tell us what was morally acceptable at the time the Bible was written. Like anyone else, the goat herders who wrote the Bible got their morals from the societies in which they lived.
You shall have no other gods in My presence..."

Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

"Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."

"Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy"
There you go, four out of the ten commandments which are hardly relevant in our societies today. Why is that? Because like I said, morals which come from our societies, change over time.

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12-13-2011 05:58 PM  5 years agoPost 9934
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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The stuff that your are typing doesn't seem to come from a person
who's part of human/nature you need to be on observation list,
the stuff you-re typing show you are a danger to your self and everything around you. your way of thinking is too radical. There's no god there's no love there's no affection" man' are you for real
i hope you not planning to get on bus with one of those vest on....
trying to take the easy way out' and take other with you,
yes, of course, all because I hold those views it must mean I'm out to wipe out all Christianity and have suicidal bomber tendencies.

the only danger I suffer from is being embarrassed by silly people like you.

are you sure you don't want to join that geese parade?
Actually, a large portion of your morals, and ours, comes from the 10 Commandments.
so tell me, Dennis, what were human beings doing to each other BEFORE the ten commandments EVER came into existence? Were they totally and utterly clueless on how to behave until some "God" told them how to behave?

or maybe they just got along as we got along now, like normal sensible people not prone to silliness that people like you exhibit.

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12-13-2011 06:22 PM  5 years agoPost 9935
flyinfriend

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North American continent

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Hi Guys,

I don't usually jump into this kind of stuff, because you can't use reason to talk someone out of a belief that they didn't come to by reason. Religious belief comes about from an emotional need, be it that we all live happily ever after in an after life ( no one really wants to believe this is the end of everything when we die ), or the hope that we get to see our long lost relatives in a happy afterlife (I believe the Egyptians were one of the first cultures to come up with this concept), or that some all-powerful being is looking out for us in this life and if we do the 'right' thing he will take care of us. Just so you know, I would love for there to be a happy afterlife, I lost both of my parents at fairly young ages and I would absolutely love to believe I will see them when I die. Just because I want to believe it does not make it so.

From seeing what synodontis has written I think it is highly unlikely that he is going to strap on a vest and harm anyone. That is usually the work of religious zealots. He seems to be speaking from a very rational position. If anyone thinks we aren't 'just' animals they are thinking that from a purely egotistical perspective. It's the 'we are special' perspective. The more we learn from science the more rational people realize we really aren't so special. We weren't created from sand and women weren't created from a rib. We aren't at the center of the universe, hell we're not even at the center of our solar system Our morality has evolved (I know, Christians hate the word) it is not something handed down from on high. Slavery was once condoned by Christians it no longer is (by most people), but that didn't occur because Christians got a new message from on high. It occurred because people's sense of morality evolved. Christians in the south were morally fine with slavery as it profited them greatly. They even used the bible to justify slavery. Morality is nothing more than a social construct that has evolved over a very long period of time.

Reading the bible and reading the bible critically are two completely different things. I would advise the second method. The commandment 'thou shalt not kill' was quickly overturned by Moses as soon as he descended from his one on one meeting with god. Upon seeing the golden calf he instructed one of his followers to gather one Jewish tribe and run through the other Jewish tribe with their swords, men, women, and children. On that day, so the story goes, roughly 3000 (may not have the count exactly correct) fell. This is nothing compared to the god commanded rape, bashing of babies against stone walls, and I'm just beginning with the atrocities committed in the name of god. The Jews received the 'thou shalt not kill' commandment and soon after went out to what was to become their 'promised land' and slaughtered those who already lived in their promised land. One thing to note about the Moses story is that there is absolutely no evidence that the Jews ever were enslaved in Egypt, not one iota.

For all the Christians who think they are saved, what makes them think they have even chose the right religion? What if Islam is the right one and Christians rolled the dice and lost because they should have chosen Islam. What if the Aztec gods are the real creator's, what if the Nordic gods are the real gods, what if...the list goes on and on. Christians are Christians primarily because they grew up in a Christian culture. Take the time to widen your tunnel vision and learn about other religions, other mythologies, and other cultures. If you actually take the time to do this you will soon realize that Christianity is not special, nor original. The Christ story itself is not even original. Many cultures had/have a story of a savior god born of a virgin who was brought into the world to save it.

Another aspect of critical reading I mentioned above would be to read the gospels critically, the stories don't even align on important facts. You would think for a book that is completely factual, infallible, and is THE written word of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving god (although he states he is a jealous god) it would at least have conforming stories between the witnesses, it doesn't. The creation stories don't align with one another either. They are filled with reams of factual errors (bats are birds is just one). The creation story was a way for people to explain things they had no understanding of. It is much easier to just say the world was created in 7 days and man was created out of sand into which the creator breathed life than it is to actually try and understand the scientific facts behind creation and evolution.

I'll end it here as I could go on, I love writing and discussing this, but inevitably someone takes offense to it because they perceive it as attacking who they are. I don't attack anyone for their beliefs, I understand the emotional impetus and need behind religion. I just ask them to read, learn, and be as rational about their beliefs as they are in most other aspects of their life. It's very easy to compartmentalize our thoughts and beliefs. I know many very intelligent people, doctors, engineers who think very rationally in most everything they do in their everyday lives, but when it comes to religion, they don't even question it for a moment because of the emotional need it fulfills. I understand it, I have a sister who suffers from depression and she is just waiting to die, doesn't take care of her failing health (and she could, she has nothing terminal) because she thinks she will go on to see my mom and dad in an afterlife.

None of this was meant to offend anyone, just to provoke meaningful thought. If you couldn't tell, I'm an a-theist, just like I am an a-easter bunnyist, an a-elfist, and an a-santa clausist. I am as moral as any Christian and more so than many (our prisons are filled with the saved). I love my family, and friends and treat people respectfully, all this without having to be threatened by some all-powerful being who promises me eternal happiness if I just be good.

I do hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season and all the best in the coming new year.

Best regards

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12-13-2011 06:26 PM  5 years agoPost 9936
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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synodontis

every man is born clueless, until he come to know' his maker,
you're still clueless becaue you haven't even come to know your self or your maker

my best bet you, you don't even know why you here.!!!!!!
you are on your way to be the next candidate to try to distroy life'
since your not even like the geese you posted at lease they believe somthing shame on you the animal know better.
i hope the FED is tracking your every move,

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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12-13-2011 06:28 PM  5 years agoPost 9937
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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or maybe they just got along as we got along now, like normal sensible people
You neither get along with others and you are not sensible at all.

That leaves you as part of the trash heap of society.

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12-13-2011 06:35 PM  5 years agoPost 9938
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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thank you, flyinfriend, at least there are some people who can use their brains, instead of the morons who use their feelings.
every man is born clueless, until he come to know' his maker,
you're still clueless becaue you haven't even come to know your self or your maker
you can only "know" someone/something if he/it/they are around to show themselves. all else is conjecture/speculation/inference at best. since your "God" is not around to show himself we cannot say either way, and your position in accusing me of being clueless can equally well be applied to you.

none of you have provided any evidence for the existence of your "God" in any way whatsoever, so do us all a favour and see therapy for your addiction.

why isn't the "we don't know" position sufficient? Why not? Why are you lot ramming down our throats about your "God" whom NONE OF YOU HAVE EVER MET NOR SEEN NOR TALKED ETC . . . why? That just makes you hypocrites, doesn't it?
my best bet you, you don't even know why you here.!!!!!!
you are on your way to be the next candidate to try to distroy life'
since your not even like the geese you posted at lease they believe somthing shame on you the animal know better.
i hope the FED is tracking your every move,
The FEDs?? You flatter me somewhat. Now make yourself useful and join that parade.

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12-13-2011 07:02 PM  5 years agoPost 9939
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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wow useless human being

here is a man got tosted from is job, "simple" because he fail to do is assingment.

his boss leave for a trip over see, and left is assignment on a pice of paper, so he show up for work and his supervisor hand him the assignment' he' tell his supervisor i am not doing that,
"simple" i have not seen the boss; he never gave me the assignment
personally' and more ever this is just pen and paper

his fellow team mate; he call them idot' because they believe in the paper the boss left the assignment on

3 month the boss came back, to find that this guy potion of the work isn't done "when asked what happen the to his work' he "reply"

you wasn't here sir i didn't believe you'll left my assignment on a pice of paper, now can get started sinc you are here,

the boss tell him' get the [f@#$x out of here] you just set my company 3 month back,

this is what you are saying; [seen is believing ] even if he come and say hey i am god you still wouldn't belive, so you go learn from the geese, you posted see they form a line behind the music band,

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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12-13-2011 07:24 PM  5 years agoPost 9940
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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this is what you are saying; [seen is believing ] even if he come and say hey i am god you still wouldn't belive, so you go learn from the geese, you posted see they form a line behind the music band,
no, I'm not saying any of that, but it looks to me that you are somehow lacking in the comprehension department.

never mind, eh, Christianity needs delude people like you to keep it afloat.

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