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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › God Did Create Mankind.
01-17-2011 01:10 AM  7 years agoPost 3261
outhouse

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ID never came in.

its imagination as religious creationist moved the bar backwards trying to keep creation in schools when evolution took root.

it failed as well, ID is only held among the uneducated and religious

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01-17-2011 01:43 AM  7 years agoPost 3262
Gearhead

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noooo-p that Protein Machine did "not" make it's self LOL

Jim
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01-17-2011 01:54 AM  7 years agoPost 3263
Dennis (RIP)

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So, if evolution is the beginnings of man, who created evolution?

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01-17-2011 02:01 PM  7 years agoPost 3264
Dusty1000

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noooo-p that Protein Machine did "not" make it's self LOL
What is this 'protein machine' that you keep mentioning? Are you talking about the first mammal, the first single celled organism, or what?

Dusty

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01-17-2011 09:04 PM  7 years agoPost 3265
Gearhead

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""What is this 'protein machine' that you keep mentioning""

Dusty, I think this is like the 4th time I told you,, the one in the link,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpNt...layer_embedded#

Jim
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01-18-2011 12:55 AM  7 years agoPost 3266
Dusty1000

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Dusty, I think this is like the 4th time I told you,, the one in the link,,
Right That's what I thought you meant when I posted a couple of videos in response last time. This seems to be the best of them

Watch at YouTube

As for Dean Kenyon, he is old school. The human DNA code wasn't even mapped accurately before 2003. Kenyon had already brought out books on creation and joined the Discovery Institute well before then. It looks like he's sticking to his guns although his colleagues moved him on from his teaching capacity at his university because none of them agree with him.

He describes the chance of the first DNA string in the simplest possible life form forming, as being the same chance of taking all the words from several pages of a book, dropping them from a height and expecting them all to fall in order. We know know it's not like that. This is further explained in the video below.

Furthermore, just like you would expect some of the words to be out of order, our DNA code is not perfect, everything is not in the perfect place. Although it's obviously good enough, it could have been better organised. Nobody could have known this before our DNA code was accurately mapped, just a few years ago.

Just like we are not perfect. An example I used earlier in the thread was that in all vertebrae, there is a nerve that goes from our brain to our throat, but it doesn't take a direct route. Instead it goes from our brain down into our chest, then goes round a major artery and then back up into our throat. On a human this is a bit of a detour, but on a giraffe it's a 7 ft detour.

If both our DNA and us, had been ''intelligently designed'' why are there such glaringly obvious and basic ''mistakes'' ???? If these 'mistakes' are obvious to a doctor or vet, as in, oh that shouldn't go there, it should have gone there instead, don't you think an ''intelligent designer'' would have put it in the correct position in the first place?

Lots of work has been done and much has been realised and discovered since Kenyon sold out to creationism. This is the video you might be looking for, which explains the evolution of DNA, and therefore why forming our DNA is not the same as dropping several boxes of scrabble letters in a heap, and expecting them to arrange themselves into the works of Hamlet.

It started off in a simple form, then evolved. If our DNA doesn't evolve, then how could we? You can't accept that we evolved, then refute the evolution of DNA. If our DNA didn't evolve, then neither did we. But we know that we did.

Watch at YouTube

Dusty

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01-18-2011 03:24 AM  7 years agoPost 3267
Dennis (RIP)

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So, if evolution is the beginnings of man, who created evolution?

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01-18-2011 03:54 AM  7 years agoPost 3268
outhouse

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Dean H. Kenyon is Professor Emeritus of Biology at San Francisco State University and a well-known young Earth creationist

This moron thinks the world is only 6000 years old

In October 1992, Kenyon was told by the chair of the SFSU Biology Department to stop teaching creationism in introductory biology courses

this moron has polluted many minds and continues to do so.

when he dies mankind will be one step closer to reality

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01-18-2011 03:59 AM  7 years agoPost 3269
Gearhead

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""don't you think an ''intelligent designer'' would have put it in the correct position in the first place""

well the answer to that would be, show me any Design that is truly perfect in something so complicated as the Human Body (or giraffe)

""If both our DNA and us, had been ''intelligently designed'' why are there such glaringly obvious and basic ''mistakes'' ???? If these 'mistakes' are obvious to a doctor or vet, as in, oh that shouldn't go there, it should have gone there instead, don't you think an ''intelligent designer'' would have put it in the correct position in the first place?""

the answer for that is "Mutants",, everything that lives has Mutants..

sorry, but that Clip LOL is only a guess

Jim
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01-18-2011 04:16 AM  7 years agoPost 3270
Gearhead

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sorry, but if you think that those parts just came from nothing, and then started telling themselves to go here and go there and move this and move that just so they can make protein so it can be sent somewhere else, well your not going to convince me, I tell you nature just doesn't work that way,,
making a simple Acid in a Glass Ball is one thing, but teaching it's self to make Protein ,,, naa

Jim
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01-18-2011 04:16 AM  7 years agoPost 3271
Life_Nerd

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sorry, but that Clip LOL is only a guess
A master Creator is less of a guess? LOL!!

Christian God, Hindu God, Muslim God, Greek God, Norse God, .... Are they all the same or is one a better master Creator than the other?

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01-18-2011 04:18 AM  7 years agoPost 3272
Gearhead

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I'm not saying the Designer was or is a "God"

Jim
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01-18-2011 04:38 AM  7 years agoPost 3273
Life_Nerd

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You are correct, Jim. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion.

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01-18-2011 06:20 AM  7 years agoPost 3274
outhouse

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because "you" personaly cannot see a 400 million year path of chemistry does not mean your imagination is a more viable solution to abiogenesis.

if you believe in ID you have to believe that "something" started life and that "something" had a hand in every aspect of all life that exist as we know it. you have to believe in magic.

thing is since the first simple bacteria we see a clear path of nature and all that nature has done without any help at all. Evolution from start to finish is explainable down to every detail and these facts have been observed. Since we know nature has done a great job with sheer diversity of life forms, it is easy to state you cannot keep life down.

Our bodies are made up of the same material as the universe and more so, made up of the material of this planet.

I personly dont have to imagine how life started so its easy for me to see how and why it formed in such a quick geologic timeline.

Two reasons why abiogenesis is a debate, #1 is the bible has polluted minds to not accept science and there minds are flat closed. #2 we are at our infancy with knowledge of the universe. We are constrained by time and a power source. We cannot investigate the universe we live in.

a parable for what we know about life in the universe, is if we went to the ocean grabbed a glass of water and stated look there are no whales in this glass so there must not be whales in the whole ocean.

Fact is the universe is teaming with life, we just cant get off this rock far enough to investigate

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01-18-2011 03:15 PM  7 years agoPost 3275
Dusty1000

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sorry, but if you think that those parts just came from nothing, and then started telling themselves to go here and go there and move this and move that just so they can make protein so it can be sent somewhere else, well your not going to convince me, I tell you nature just doesn't work that way,,
making a simple Acid in a Glass Ball is one thing, but teaching it's self to make Protein ,,, naa
Are you referring to this video?

Watch at YouTube

Those are the organic materials that we and every other living thing on the earth are made of, that were made from chemicals in that glass jar. When that first took place on the planet, was the start of biology. Before the first organic materials existed, there was only chemistry. So we know how nature made the first organic material, because scientists can do the same thing in a glass jar and have been doing so since the '50s, even if they didn't fully understand what it was until the '80s.

It's an interesting video as the first bit showing footage of the experiment in the '50s was obviously filmed in the '80s, then the bit at the end about what we have learned since, was updated far more recently.

As the other videos mentioned too, we now know that DNA comes from RNA, and we know that RNA evolves itself by natural selection of it's components, because RNA still exists today so it can be tested and observed, just the same as DNA, and us.

We know that most of what's alive on the planet today is based on the same organic materials, and the same RNA. Although several types of RNA exist, only one of them evolved to become DNA We also know that RNA and DNA evolve, just like we do.

All of the above we know for certain.

What we don't know, is how the first basic forms of RNA evolved from the basic organic materials. Or as you say, ''what put the protein machine together.''

So although we still don't have the whole picture, we do have most of it. The only bit missing, 'what put the protein machine together' is the bit that believers in ID or creation say must have been down to God or some other sort of designer. And the propagandists among them do their best to make it sound more complex than it actually seems to be.

It's interesting that you should say that the designer wasn't necessarily a God though. If he wasn't a God, what else could he have been?

Dusty

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01-18-2011 03:36 PM  7 years agoPost 3276
Dusty1000

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well the answer to that would be, show me any Design that is truly perfect in something so complicated as the Human Body (or giraffe)
I know where you're coming from, but the point was that it's a glaringly obvious and basic 'mistake'.

Take helis as an example of anything that's designed must have a designer. While set up might never be perfect, in that some small improvements can always be made somewhere, routing the nerve in question, from the brain into the chest etc and back up to the throat, is akin to taking the lead from the lipo, wrapping it round the tail boom and then routing it back to the esc/receiver. That would similarly be such a glaringly obvious case of bad set up to you or me, as the route that nerve takes from the brain to the throat is to a doctor or vet.

You or I wouldn't do such a thing, so why should any other 'intelligent designer'? If he can design living things, he must for sure be a lot smarter than we are.
the answer for that is "Mutants",, everything that lives has Mutants..
Every vertebrate that's alive today, humans, giraffes, birds and fish, you name it, everything that has a backbone has this same nerve, and it takes the exact same route into the chest etc then back to the throat. Mutants as I understand it, are usually something that's abnormal. This nerve however and the route it takes, is normal for all vertebrates. If it's a design, then it's a bad design.

The most likely answer is that way back on the evolutionary tree, when the first vertebrates (fish) evolved their backbones, they also happened to grow this nerve in the position it grew in, and the genes of the first ancestors of fish that did this were the ones which went on to evolve into fish. Obviously it wouldn't have been affected by natural selection, because it's not a disadvantage in any way. It's just one of many glaringly obvious 'mistakes' in the human body that could have been 'designed' better, and because this one is common to all vertebrates, it's a good example to use here.

Dusty

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01-18-2011 10:01 PM  7 years agoPost 3277
Gearhead

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""you have to believe in magic"'

says who, says you,, no, I'm to old to believe in magjic

""If he wasn't a God, what else could he have been""

like I have said, a higher, or smarter life form..

Jim
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01-19-2011 12:33 AM  7 years agoPost 3278
Dusty1000

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like I have said, a higher, or smarter life form..
That would then beg the question, what created or designed it?

Dusty

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01-19-2011 01:22 AM  7 years agoPost 3279
outhouse

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That would then beg the question, what created or designed it?
the magic man's dad did silly lol

we live in a magic universe where magic men roam free in groups of three, the fatha, the sun and the holy ghost. See these 3 just pick a planet and watch over it with a magic wand and they have a hand in everything. They do magic so well it mirrors evolution to a T wow we are so lucky to have magic men taking care of us lol

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01-19-2011 01:51 AM  7 years agoPost 3280
RCHSF

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I don't think they are 3 individual beings. Just one being with three separate attributes.

And I don't think magic is the right word. Magic is trickery.

I can see my TV, but I don't require the schematics that was used to build it to know it's real. I know I can touch it and hear it. But we can have these same sensations with God, but only if we are in union with him, and tuned in on a higher level.

Just like when you love someone a wife, or girlfriend, another person cant see the love you have in your heart, they cant touch it, or feel it, but you know it's there. If you said I love her, and someone else said your crazy???

We can see God, feel him, and hear him. But not all the time, and only if we are open to him.

I'm not sure why people assume we have only been here 6,000 years, I guess because the bible only records that amount of history. But me personally, I'm not sure how long we been here. I'd say way more than a mere 6,000 yeas.
But I draw the line at Evolution of man. Evolution may be real and true for animals. But I'm 100% sure man came about buy other means, or we had help in our evolution.

A common ancestor does not explain our intelligence and a whole host of other issues. So the theory of evolution from a common ancestor is not even possible alone.

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