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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › God Did Create Mankind.
01-12-2011 02:50 AM  7 years agoPost 3181
Dusty1000

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Dusty,, so what are you saying, God didn't make man but he tweaked his Evolution
No, that's not what I'm saying. How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Where did I ever mention any God having anything to do with anything? God only exists in the minds of those who have faith that he exists.
BTW, this thread is about Abiogenists, notice the Subject Matter "God Did Create Mankind", if God did create Man then that would be Abiogenists
Nope, that would be creation.

Dusty

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01-12-2011 02:50 AM  7 years agoPost 3182
Gearhead

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I see

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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01-12-2011 02:53 AM  7 years agoPost 3183
Dusty1000

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Its possible. Not saying it did. But, it is possible and you cannot prove otherwise.
It's possible that there's a teapot that orbits the earth. You cannot prove otherwise, although I'm not saying there is.

And your point is?
The science of Abiogenists says that science is UNCERTAIN about the beginnings of man.
Nope, the science of abiogenesis says it has nothing to do with the beginning of man, any more than it has to do with the beginning of anything else that's alive today. Assuming that 'science' is able to talk, that is

Dusty

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01-12-2011 02:54 AM  7 years agoPost 3184
Gearhead

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""that would be creation""

aa Haaa ""creation"" by a maker, a builder

Jim
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01-12-2011 03:06 AM  7 years agoPost 3185
Dennis (RIP)

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Nope, the science of abiogenesis says it has nothing to do with the beginning of man, any more than it has to do with the beginning of anything else that's alive today. Assuming that 'science' is able to talk, that is

Well it appears as though 'science' is able to talk:

Evolutionary history of life
Main article: Evolutionary history of life
See also: Timeline of evolution and Timeline of human evolution
Origin of life
Further information: Abiogenesis and RNA world hypothesis

The origin of life is a necessary precursor for biological evolution, but understanding that evolution occurred once organisms appeared and investigating how this happens does not depend on understanding exactly how life began.[243] The current scientific consensus is that the complex biochemistry that makes up life came from simpler chemical reactions, but it is unclear how this occurred.[244] Not much is certain about the earliest developments in life, the structure of the first living things, or the identity and nature of any last universal common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.[245][246] Consequently, there is no scientific consensus on how life began, but proposals include self-replicating molecules such as RNA,[247] and the assembly of simple cells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

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01-12-2011 05:18 AM  7 years agoPost 3186
outhouse

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the science of abiogenesis is not a theory. That does not mean you have to use your imagination to figure out how life started. scientist simply state there not sure but they have some good ideas. No imagination there

just so were clear though, ID is just creationist moving the bar backwards when evolution became fact. Humans evolved, so they moved the bar to say god started the first life then instead of creating man as we know it.

OH and rcflyer09 when I say your uneducated or ignorant, it has to with your level of education in different science departments.

How can you try and trash science when you dont know the first thing about it.

Nothing was created anywhere, the earth was not created by a imaginatory god. Life weas not created. You cant keep life down, from inside caves with no light there are animals with no eyes, sea vents that spew 300f water at 7000' deep and life thrives to deserts to the antarctic. Life is in teh water, mud, sky and land. It all evolved naturally without any help from mans imagination of what he doesnt know

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01-12-2011 05:27 AM  7 years agoPost 3187
Dennis (RIP)

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How can you try and trash science when you dont know the first thing about it.
They seems to be some arm chair scientists that do a good job of that all by themselves.

All that has to happen is to point it out.

Done.

The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Stupidity goes on forever. Especially when its over 150 pages of arm chair science BS.

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01-12-2011 12:36 PM  7 years agoPost 3188
Dusty1000

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Well it appears as though 'science' is able to talk:
Science has no vocal chords, therefore cannot talk.

As you yourself quoted:
The origin of life is a necessary precursor for biological evolution, but understanding that evolution occurred once organisms appeared and investigating how this happens does not depend on understanding exactly how life began.
See, mankind was not one of the first organisms to live on this planet. Not even close. So the beginning of life is irrelevant to this thread.

Although you would rather concentrate on telling us what we don't know, I hope that you can understand why some of us have a more positive attitude, and want to expand on our existing knowledge base.

There's lots of good info in this thread and I myself have learnt quite a bit. Both from the input of other members, notably outhouse, and also from what I've researched myself. The only reason I can see why anyone might not learn as I have done, is if they don't want to.

While you may have spent 160 pages saying that because you don't know therefore no-one else can know, for some of us, the time has been more productive.
How can you try and trash science when you dont know the first thing about it.
This is just one more example of the above. Just because you don't know something, doesn't mean to say that no-one else does. To know, you have to want to learn, and if you don't want to learn, then you will never know.

Dusty

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01-12-2011 01:36 PM  7 years agoPost 3189
Dennis (RIP)

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just so were clear though, ID is just creationist moving the bar backwards when evolution became fact. Humans evolved, so they moved the bar to say god started the first life then instead of creating man as we know it.
And, no one can prove otherwise.

Nobody knows

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01-12-2011 04:06 PM  7 years agoPost 3190
Dusty1000

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And, no one can prove otherwise.

Nobody knows
So you keep saying, but what makes you so sure?

People deny all sorts of historical events. How could you prove to anyone that any one particular event actually took place? All you can do is present the evidence, and if someone chooses to believe that it's all been fabricated, there's not much we can do to help them understand.

The more evidence there is, the more convincing the case for that evidence becomes, yet still there will always be those who will not take the evidence seriously, because it conflicts with their existing beliefs.

Take Holocaust deniers for example. I read an article recently where 4 American Muslim Holocaust deniers were taken to the remains of Auschwitz, and were said to have undergone a life changing experience at what they saw. All of the information that's available to us was available to them, yet that was not enough to convince them. Up until then, they firmly believed that nobody could know for sure that the holocaust took place. If they didn't know, how could anyone else know?

Fortunately that seems to be a rare case, and most folk who know what we know, don't have any doubt that the Holocaust did take place.

For most of us, even if we cannot directly observe something, that is no reason to deny that it did not take place. That's only enough reason for some....

P.S. no I am not likening folk who deny that man did evolve from more primitive lifeforms, to Holocaust deniers. It's the concept of denial in spite of evidence that's the same. The two events (evolution and the Holocaust) obviously bear no comparison.

Dusty

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01-12-2011 05:45 PM  7 years agoPost 3191
Dennis (RIP)

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So you keep saying, but what makes you so sure?
Its simple, and its already been said here countless number of times Dusty:

FAITH

Thats all it is. Here is a little help:

1faith
noun \ˈfāth\
plural faiths \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\
Definition of FAITH
1
a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2
a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3
: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
— on faith
: without question <took everything he said on faith>

See faith defined for English-language learners »

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Faith
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Faith (disambiguation).
Allegory of Faith, by the Spanish sculptor Luis Salvador Carmona (1752–53). The veil symbolizes the impossibility of knowing sacred evidence directly

Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, concept or thing.[1][2] The English word is thought to date from 1200–50, from the Latin fidem or fidēs, meaning trust, derived from the verb fīdere, to trust.[1]

The term is employed in a religious or theological context to refer to a confident belief in a transcendent reality, a religious teacher, a set of teachings or a Supreme Being. It may be used to refer to a particular religious tradition or to religion in general.

Since faith implies a trusting reliance upon future events or outcomes, it is often taken by some people as inevitably synonymous with a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."[3][4]

Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true,[5] belief in and assent to the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her supposed authority and truthfulness.[6] Informal usage can be quite broad, and the word is often used as a mere substitute for trust or belief'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

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01-12-2011 05:50 PM  7 years agoPost 3192
outhouse

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And, no one can prove otherwise.

Nobody knows
Actually they have a dang good hypothisis going right now.

This means they know they just havnt proved it as a fact yet.

if you know science, they dont prove anything.

they base theorys from observable facts.

if we drop science to your level, they could do a experiment in the lab and have positive results and you still wouldnt buy it.

asking for proof of something that happened 3-3.5billion yours ago when the earth cooled is a pretty tall order since there would not be fossils.

This must make you happy that you can keep on using your imagination and a 3000 year old goat herders guide for a science book LOL

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01-12-2011 06:00 PM  7 years agoPost 3193
Dennis (RIP)

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Actually they have a dang good hypothisis going right now.

This means they know they just havnt proved it as a fact yet.
Thats correct. 100%. Thats all it is. A hypothesis.
if we drop science to your level, they could do a experiment in the lab and have positive results and you still wouldnt buy it.
So, that means an arm chair scientist actually thinks he is better than others according to you. You see, that comes out in most every post you make on this subject. And, is the primary reason why you are an embarrassment for your own side of the discussion and will get nowhere with it.

You expect to teach and educate others while calling them ignorant and stupid? That goes nowhere, except to expose your own ignorance.
asking for proof of something that happened 3-3.5billion yours ago when the earth cooled is a pretty tall order since there would not be fossils.
Well duh.
This must make you happy that you can keep on using your imagination and a 3000 year old goat herders guide for a science book
You see, there is that crummy attitude again. Nice going.

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01-12-2011 07:20 PM  7 years agoPost 3194
Dusty1000

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Its simple, and its already been said here countless number of times Dusty:

FAITH
Ok, so the reason you don't believe that mankind evolved from simpler lifeforms, is because you have faith that all of the evidence is wrong?

Not what I would call a very good argument, but understandable if it's the only one you have.
Thats correct. 100%. Thats all it is. A hypothesis.
If this thread was all about the beginnings of life on earth I probably wouldn't bother posting. As you say, it's a hypothesis and there aren't many facts that we can discuss. It all happened a long time ago.

As it's about the beginnings of mankind though, which was in the far more recent past, there're plenty of facts that we can discuss, such as evolution.

Dusty

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01-12-2011 07:55 PM  7 years agoPost 3195
Dennis (RIP)

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Not what I would call a very good argument, but understandable if it's the only one you have.
Gee, thanks for the understanding.
If this thread was all about the beginnings of life on earth I probably wouldn't bother posting. As you say, it's a hypothesis and there aren't many facts that we can discuss. It all happened a long time ago.
Nobody knows.

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01-12-2011 08:44 PM  7 years agoPost 3196
Dusty1000

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Gee, thanks for the understanding.
You're welcome

Seriously though, if that was the only argument we had, this thread would likely never have got past the first page.

''I have faith that God created mankind''

''I have faith that he didn't''

And there the thread would likely have endeth.

Thankfully, there's a bit more to it than that.
Nobody knows.
Which is why IMO, although it would be rude to not address any questions that arise regarding the beginnings of life itself, it's a waste of time discussing it.

As long as we stick to the period of time that man has been around for, we all know where we're at.

Dusty

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01-12-2011 09:22 PM  7 years agoPost 3197
Gearhead

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""How could you prove to anyone that any one particular event actually took place?""

Dusty, did you actually say that ?? so you agree that there is NO proof the first Cell on Earth made it's self or was made by a Higher Life Form ??

Jim
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01-12-2011 11:04 PM  7 years agoPost 3198
outhouse

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""How could you prove to anyone that any one particular event actually took place?""
you cant prove, science cant prove.

why not use your brain and all that science has to offer to look for a possibility?

your only other option is imagination. this is fact.

it comes down to science VS imagination. and science is not basing there hypothisis from imagination.

If you follow religion you follow facts like

flat earth
sun revolves around the earth
worldwide flood
6000 year old earth
magic
adam lived over 900 years
noah lived over 800

or

you can face the truth and forget the jews imagination

ask yourself

just when did your god step in???

did he create the earth or the universe? was the earth created naturally and different from other planets? or did nature do it?

did the jew god just create a single cell and step out and let everything evolve?

remember in your book it clearly states god made man in "OUR" imagine.

facts or imagination the choice is yours

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01-12-2011 11:16 PM  7 years agoPost 3199
husky385

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you can face the truth and forget the jews imagination
Is that a little antisemitism showing it's ugly little head there outhouse???? Maybe we are starting to see what's behind the the man.
Kevin

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01-12-2011 11:41 PM  7 years agoPost 3200
outhouse

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is it wrong to call jews jews???

nothing antisemitic about that, not only that jews will be the first one to tell you the OT are storys ment to be read allegorically NOT literally.

me thinks your just grasping at anything you can besides the truth

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