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HelicopterAlignT-REX 600N › Anybody put a ys61 on their trex 600?
08-31-2012 04:15 AM  5 years agoPost 21
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Allright boys !

My LHS didn't have the clutch shoe in stock any more so I ordered online and finally received it !

I passed my order at Infinity Hobby and they had received some more 24T pinion since last time so I ordered it as well !

My T600 Big Block is ready for the coming weekend :
will run the 23T pinion still, governed at 2000, the GT5 is nicely secure on some 3mm foam tape, we'll see how that goes.

I'll try to push it first on the collective pitch, maybe up to +/-14, then we'll try higher headspeed, up to 2100 ... and if I feel the engine is still running nice and cool I'll install the 24T pinion for the following weekend !

And just in case the GT5 still doesn't handle the vibration of the YS long stroke, i've got an extra Tarot ZYX from Infinity Hobby, not sure how it will handle nitro vibes but on my 450 it is just pure awesome ! I love this unit !

will keep you posted ...
BTW : Thumbs up for Infinity Hobby ! excellent services and selection of products.

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09-03-2012 04:00 PM  5 years agoPost 22
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Well,
I took out my 600 Big Block last weekend. Could get 3 flights in :

On the first one I could play a bit with my needles and GT5 settings to finally get something stable enough.

Second tank was just plain awesome! Wanted to see what kind of power this big block setup had to give and I wasn't disapointed : I love Tic Tocs, but couldn't abuse too many of them on my 55 because it was overheating pretty easily ; well now it just keep going non-stop, with higher headspeed, and never bogs down! Touching the backplate after landing and its nice and cool, can leave my finger there forever.

I'm so thrilled with this mod!
Flight time is a little over 6 minutes so that's acceptable too.
My 90 size is gonna stay home more often from now on...

So why did I stop on the 3rd tank only? Well, I suddenly heard some metalic grinding noise so I landed immediatly and it stopped. As I spoolled up again the noise started again and I knew it was from the clutch. I had to call it a day...

Back home I disassemble everything to find out the clutch liner was completely gone! The new shoe I just ordered was still in one piece but the 2 sides were expanded a little outwards.
Not sure I can use it some more or not...

What gives? Is the 600 clutch not strong enough to withstand this kind of power? How can remedy to this? I thought of trying to fit a 700 clutch instead but that's going to mess up everything... shall I increase the RPM and / or reduce my collective pitch (I'm "only" on +-13 now)?

This is quite a bummer... but I'm keeping hopes!

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09-03-2012 08:45 PM  5 years agoPost 23
hhart

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San Jose, CA

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Zbawer,

Leave all the setting as is, you want to keep the fun right . Change to a thicker liner which leaves 10 mill gap perside. You would need to 'break-in' the liner later. The original liner-clutch has too much gap to start with.

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09-04-2012 07:23 AM  5 years agoPost 24
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Yes I recall now I've read about this somewhere before ...
Align are now selling 2 different liners : one is black the other is kind of blue / green.
If I am not mistaking the blue / green one is the newest version and is a bit thicker.
Otherwise I'm not against trying to increase the RPM : i'm governed at 2K at the moment using 7.39 gear ratio (23T pinion) meaning my YS 91 SR runs a little under 15K.
Correct me if i'm wrong but increasing the RPM should make the clutch grip on the liner / bell tighter as well ?

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09-04-2012 12:03 PM  5 years agoPost 25
Hakulhak

rrNovice

Malaysia

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i'm running 2200rpm @ idle 1 and 2300rpm @ idle 3 with fine.
Clutch will give away at 4-5 gallon.

you will happy with this setup

Thank you

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09-04-2012 03:32 PM  5 years agoPost 26
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Jeez hakulhak!!!
Nobody said anything about clutch failing all the time!
We got to find a solution...
For next weekend I'm gonna run a new clutch shoe and the new blueish assumedly thickier type of liner. See how this goes...

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09-05-2012 06:05 AM  5 years agoPost 27
hhart

rrApprentice

San Jose, CA

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Zbwr,

regardless of what liner you use, measure it to get 10 mill gap per side. When you have too much gap, the clutch would slip during torquey manuvers and thus further thinning away the liner.

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09-05-2012 08:44 AM  5 years agoPost 28
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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yes I've rebuilt my clutch assembly last nite. did not measure the gap between liner and shoe but it pretty much is as close as it can get.
Test fly next weekend !

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09-06-2012 04:33 AM  5 years agoPost 29
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Here are some pics of my power house : YS91 SR, Hatory pipe ... and Kasama header which I think makes a noticeable increase in powerband.

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09-10-2012 04:06 PM  5 years agoPost 30
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Last weekend was a disaster on my side : I wanted to re-tune my GT5 from scratch following the method described by the V3 manual and by Gary Wright, so I changed a few parameters from my last session, only to my biggest surprise after spooling up, just as I took off I completely lost control, hit TH and smashed down into the ground!
I think the GT5 unit got bothered by some nasty vibes.

Not too severe damages, boom and TT, tail blades, and a few links popped out! That it!
My Radix main balde are fine, even though I still had a lot of head speed on impact

I loved my GT5 when running with my OS55, was flying real nice... but I recently tried a Tarot ZYX unit on a 450 and OMG this thing is awesome! So the plan for next weekend is to swap it on my 600 BB. Not sure how it will handle nitro vibes, but unlike the GT5, it will be mounted at the rear this time around, so hopefully far enough from the YS91.

To be continued...

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10-14-2012 03:21 PM  5 years agoPost 31
Hakulhak

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Malaysia

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any update

Thank you

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10-15-2012 09:44 AM  5 years agoPost 32
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Thanks for asking my friend !!

For my clutch issues I didn't have any luck with any of the stock Align liners. I really can't explain why but neither the blue nor the black kind solved my issued, the clutch kept on slipping due to the increase torq produced by the YS91.
Those stock liners had a thickness of .8mm which I thought was giving the smallest amount of gap I could hope for ... WRONG,i tried some TT HD liner, 1mm thick, and the fit was just perfect and it totally solved the issue !

Since then. I actually I had 3 outings with my 600 BB :

First one went great for for about 4 tanks, producing amazing power and still playing with RPM / gain / tuning settings ... until on of the 2 screws holding down the clutch shoe onto the fan hub came out because of the vibration I guess.

Next time I go fly and after about 10 sec in the air I see some long rod flying out !! So I land immediately to find on of the carbon rod supporting the boom came loose as well.
I should have seen this coming from the previous session ... definitely this Big Block conversion is generating huge amount of vibes.
So I purchased some red loctite to replace the blue one I used before ...

3rd session I thought I was ready to get some serious flying, but this time the GY701 governor sensor failed on me.
While flying I could hear the headspeed hunting with cycles like 5 sec governed at 1900 / 5 sec ungoverned and obviously my curves are set way too high as the 701 showed max RPM around 2600 !!

My LHS was out of stock for those Futuba governor sensors so last week I took the opportunity to get some good flying with my beloved Srimok 90N ! I recently upgrade the OS91 I had in it with the cline regulator ... working good !

Next weekend should be able to fly again my 600 BB and hopefull tune this beast for its max performance. I'm hitting for 2200 RPM and tiktok without bogging. That would be such a blast !

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11-16-2012 08:47 PM  4 years agoPost 33
Flydynamics

rrNovice

Winnipeg

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Zbawer,

any update on this mod ?

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11-17-2012 01:45 PM  4 years agoPost 34
Zbawer

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Singapore

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Yes i finally managed to get everything setup right and i'm having a blast! 2250 rpm, something like 13 degre collective plus some extra with the acceleration function in my 12FG.
The ZYX unit is working great, since I got it setup at the back.
I keep throwing full punch outs, tic tocs, large rainbows and there's no way to bog that thing!
I absolutely love it and this Big Block mod is something I highly recommend!

Here are again the few things that are required to get t right :
FBL module mounted at the back, away from vibes
HD clutch liner, 1mm thick
Red loctite everywhere
Hooo and yeah, one more thing, upgraded 700 size balls and ball links on servo wheels, bellcrancks, swash, grips... tail is optional

Next step will be installing those thrusted bearing blocks I ordered from kasama as well. My radial bearings on the main shaft had a hard time taking the beating and were getting notchy prematurely

Only drawback is the tank going dry in just a little over 6 min.
But those are 6 insane minutes!

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11-22-2012 06:46 PM  4 years agoPost 35
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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Zbawer
Here are again the few things that are required to get t right :
FBL module mounted at the back, away from vibes
HD clutch liner, 1mm thick
Red loctite everywhere
Hooo and yeah, one more thing, upgraded 700 size balls and ball links on servo wheels, bellcrancks, swash, grips... tail is optional
Next step will be installing those thrusted bearing blocks I ordered from kasama as well. My radial bearings on the main shaft had a hard time taking the beating and were getting notchy prematurely
Thats not required at all..
If the engine is installed correct,you don't get vibes..If you can't use the gyro mount due to vibes,you need to fix the problem thats sending vibes.
No upgraded 700 balls/links needed,stock 600N balls/links are 100% fine..Same with all frame bearings,stock 600N bearings are fine..

If you need to replace/upgrade all this stuff,you for sure did something wrong installing the engine or its not tunned good..Around 100 flights and all my bearings are smooth,links are tight and I have no issues with vibes .I did strip a main gear but it was also really cold out and my gov is screwed up,thats about it..

Watch at YouTube

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11-22-2012 07:06 PM  4 years agoPost 36
hhart

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San Jose, CA

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^^ 4:30 minute flight time. My setup w/ novarossi not getting any longer flight time too. The novarossi revs higher however.

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11-23-2012 02:06 AM  4 years agoPost 37
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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If the engine is installed correct,you don't get vibes..
Well of course ! Silly me ... the YS91SR "Long Stroke" is notorious for running smooth as silk ! It just doesn't vibe AT ALL ! It's amazing, it's even less than with a Turbine !
Come on, gimme a break ...

If you want to use extra dampening sponge tap or PU gel and leave the FBL in front please be my guest. Otherwise moving it at the back solve the problem for me.

the 700 sized ball and links might be an overkill, but I had one popping out of the swash 3 weeks ago, causing a crash of course, post crash investigations revealed many other links were getting jiggly. My theory is the excess of fumes and burnt oil residue coming out of the 90 size engine will wear out the links faster. upgrading to 700 size shall keep them in shape for a lil longer I guess. But I have to agree this mod is not a "must".

Now on to the bearing blocks :
I run 150 RPM more than you do (which to that extent will make quite a difference in terms of pop effect on aggressive collective), and maybe more pitch as well (i'm on -/+13 plus some acceleration setup on my TX). Your flying skills are pretty good I must say, but I also like to think am a darn good "serial tictocer" and the truth is that my stock radial bearing are getting notchy after just a few sessions ...
So go on and tell all those 3rd party manufacturers, such as Kasama and KDE and Lynx, that their thrusted bearing blocks upgrades is just a scam.

hhart : what's the max servicable RPM on a nova engine ?
YS91SR is 17K which is more than OS. I've got the 23 teeth pinon on mine so that gets me to a solid 2250 RPM governed, which is awesome.
Got just about 6 minutes per tank (with header).

Also the other day I've lowered my rotor head by 1cm using the 600 EFL main shaft. Now the swash follower are stuck up against the hub, so can't go any lower than that ... unless I convert to DFC which I won't, ever !
Let's see if I feel any difference ...

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11-23-2012 06:07 AM  4 years agoPost 38
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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WOW,
Well ya didn't have to come off as a know it all running your mouth trying to be funny,not the best way to get help/advice..

I already know you don't fly it hard at all from past post and for some reason ya have all these issues that others and I don't..
If you knew how to do the mod the correct way,you wouldn't have all these vibe issues,parts falling off ect...
My buddy which has been building BigBlock 600N's for 5+ years ran high headspeeds in the past with his and also didn't have problems like you do.Him,a few others also and I run YS 91SR's too,NO VIBE ISSUES.

Watch at YouTube

Good luck to ya and hope you fix the problems..Later.

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11-23-2012 06:32 AM  4 years agoPost 39
hhart

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San Jose, CA

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Max on Nova .57 is 21k. That number translate to headspeed of 2470rpm.

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11-23-2012 06:59 AM  4 years agoPost 40
Zbawer

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Yeah but this thread is about 600 big blocks ! I thought you had a nova 90 in yours.
Can't compare.

Bladestrike : I think you got some more serious sequels from that car crash.
I've noticed you've came across several confrontations lately with quite a few members of the community.
You should see someone...

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HelicopterAlignT-REX 600N › Anybody put a ys61 on their trex 600?
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