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HelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Gordie Meads rules change proposal for AMA classes​( working notes version)
02-15-2011 02:54 AM  6 years agoPost 221
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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Practice both for now. We hope to hear soon. Still waiting for drawings to be done and approved.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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03-03-2011 12:58 AM  6 years agoPost 222
nighttrain

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Louisville KY

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Sooooo..... Where did we leave off?

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03-03-2011 02:09 AM  6 years agoPost 223
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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Waiting on the AMA.......

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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03-03-2011 02:54 AM  6 years agoPost 224
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida​US

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AMA

Proposal has been formalized and sent to AMA for approval. I would expect it to show up on the AMA web site in pretty short order.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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03-16-2011 05:43 PM  6 years agoPost 225
ErichF

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Gordie,

Can you please post the narratives for the new AMA Class schedules as they were recently submitted. I can finally start practicing thanks to Daylight Savings Time

Erich

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03-24-2011 11:47 PM  6 years agoPost 226
Phaedrus

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S. Orange County,​California

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It appears that the new proposals have been posted on the AMA website:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events...s/offcycle.aspx

AMA Leader Member
Go FASST, or Go Home!!
Team Futaba

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03-25-2011 12:16 AM  6 years agoPost 227
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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Great figures. The Circle in Expert is drawn in the wrong direction, though. I think.

I guess I should start practicing

Erich

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03-25-2011 12:24 AM  6 years agoPost 228
rapidity

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ohio

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I find it hard to believe that C2 can be flown in 8 minutes. They could barely fly the old c2 in that time and more complexity has been added to the new.

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03-25-2011 12:31 AM  6 years agoPost 229
ErichF

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Hmm...I never bothered to look at the new Advanced schedule until now.

That Figure M will take some time to get through, and the 3 second slow roll has been increased to 4 seconds. That's a long time to roll a heli, but doable with enough entry speed.

The aeros are really quick manuevers, though. They should make up some of the time lost in the hovering stuff.

It all looks fun, though.

Erich

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03-25-2011 12:32 AM  6 years agoPost 230
rapidity

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ohio

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You also have to do a turn around for landing now which you didn't have to do before.

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03-25-2011 03:08 AM  6 years agoPost 231
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Don't sweat the time thing. Flying the new schedules at regional events will give plenty of opportunity to adjust the time as needed. We adjusted the old CIII time at the Nats when it became clear it was too short. Just need to make sure clocks are used at the regional events to see how long it's taking to do and if adjustments will be required.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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03-25-2011 03:39 AM  6 years agoPost 232
Phaedrus

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One method around the time issue is to have CDs simply announce 30 days or more ahead of the event that they will use a different time window. Or if you get some data in time you might be able to amend the proposed rule before it goes final.

I'm still stunned and impressed that you guys were able to get such a sweeping change in the rules submitted and accepted off cycle!

AMA Leader Member
Go FASST, or Go Home!!
Team Futaba

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03-25-2011 02:29 PM  6 years agoPost 233
kcordell

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As far as the time issue, unless you are really taking a lot of time hovering, completing the schedule should be rather easy. Time is usually not called unless it is really blatant. One of the things I have noticed as a judge that hurts pilots time wise is taking too long between hovering maneauvers and going out to far on aeros. The aeros should actually go by pretty quickly. And again on time, as was once explained by Horace Hagen at a NATS, if you don't have two stopwatches on the pilot, it's really hard to zero someone for being a few seconds over. But if you are like 30 seconds over, you need to work harder, and I have seen a pilot or two go that far over, but it doesn't happen often.
During practice, if you have someone with you, have them time your flights, giving you times broke down such as how long to get from the start box to the pad (if your class requires hovering to the pad under clock), time from 1st maneauver to end of hovering, and upstairs time. Then you can see what you need to work on.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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03-25-2011 02:44 PM  6 years agoPost 234
rocket_33

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Mount Pleasant,​Michigan USA

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Is it official as yet? As I read it on the AMA website, it had just posted the proposal as they would do for comment.

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03-25-2011 02:48 PM  6 years agoPost 235
Phaedrus

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S. Orange County,​California

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The new rules are still pending. They need to receive comments and then to be voted on by the Helicopter Contest Board before becoming final.

This is an interesting bit of info from the document detailing the Contest Board process. It is from the Off Cycle section:
New rules put in place by Urgent or Interpretation proposals shall become mandatory on January 1 of the year following their original issue (see 8.3.5). Rules put in place by Safety/Emergency proposals are put in to effect immediately.
and a bit later there is this:
8.3.4 Urgent and Interpretation Proposals
Proposals which are judged by the technical director to not qualify as Safety/Emergency proposals will be handled as indicated below. Note: the "Immediate Enforcement" option is not available for these types of proposals.

8.3.4.1 Notification of Proposal and Enforcement Method Selection
Following the acceptance of a proposal as either an Urgent or Interpretation proposal, the technical director will circulate a copy of the proposal and ballot with a 15 day turnaround to each of the affected Contest Boards. The ballot will request the Board members to choose the method of enforcement for the proposal. The choices are indicated in 8.3.5 with "A. Immediate Enforcement" not being available for these types of proposals. If option “C. Denial of Immediate Action” is chosen, the proposal will be returned to the proposer with a recommendation that it be submitted as a regular rules proposal during the regular rules change cycle. If option "B" is chosen, the proposal will continue to be processed as indicated below.

8.3.4.2 Publication Requirement and Proposal Ratification
If option "B" is chosen, the proposal will be immediately published in an official publication or communication of the Academy. Not less than four weeks and not more than six weeks after publication, the technical director will send a ballot with a 15 day turnaround to the affected Contest Board(s) to obtain ratification. If a 60% majority of those responding from each of the affected Boards concurs, the ruling will be considered final.
Here is the link to the Contest Board procedures:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/CBProcedures.doc

AMA Leader Member
Go FASST, or Go Home!!
Team Futaba

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05-06-2011 04:20 PM  6 years agoPost 236
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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The new rules are still pending. They need to receive comments and then to be voted on by the Helicopter Contest Board before becoming final.
There are a couple of guys on the contest board that do visit the RR forum.

Ben, Tom, Gordie,

Have you guys seen it come around yet?

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05-06-2011 04:43 PM  6 years agoPost 237
Phaedrus

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Just an update. The URP passed the initial vote by the Contest Board on April 18, 2011.

The Board passed option "B" by a vote of 9 to 0. THis is what that means:
8.3.4.2 Publication Requirement and Proposal Ratification
If option "B" is chosen, the proposal will be immediately published in an official publication or communication of the Academy. Not less than four weeks and not more than six weeks after publication, the technical director will send a ballot with a 15 day turnaround to the affected Contest Board(s) to obtain ratification. If a 60% majority of those responding from each of the affected Boards concurs, the ruling will be considered final.
Once that final vote is taken and if it passes then it will go into effect on January 1 of the next year, that being January 1, 2012 in this case.
New rules put in place by Urgent or Interpretation proposals shall become mandatory on January 1 of the year following their original issue (see 8.3.5). Rules put in place by Safety/Emergency proposals are put into effect immediately.

AMA Leader Member
Go FASST, or Go Home!!
Team Futaba

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05-06-2011 05:56 PM  6 years agoPost 238
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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Thank you my friend,

I thought it was submmited as an "Urgent" propossal to get the new schedules this year, out of cycle. Oh well.

Santiago

Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
bavarianDEMON- Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-

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05-06-2011 06:56 PM  6 years agoPost 239
Vector3

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U.S.A.

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Gee I wonder how many contestants will not be competeing because of the fact that the old rules will still be in place this summer at the Nats?

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05-06-2011 08:54 PM  6 years agoPost 240
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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I just got a call back from the Greg the director of competition at AMA and he said the new proposals will be accepted before this Nats and "It is the option of the CD to use whichever schedule he chooses"

I saw Craig at Toledo, and I'm certain he will use the new one's at our request.

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HelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Gordie Meads rules change proposal for AMA classes​( working notes version)
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