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08-16-2010 03:22 AM  7 years agoPost 1
ostatebucki1

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Cincinnati, OH, USA

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What are the differences/pros/cons between the two. I'm thinking about getting a 2 in 1 when I get the x50. Thanks.

Any and all help is appreciated!

Zach
Velocity 50

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08-16-2010 03:58 AM  7 years agoPost 2
bhoff

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houston texas

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i just bought the 2n1 for my 600 it actually comes with a lipo...i would prefer a lipo battery or a life battery,which i used to use as my receiver battery, but now i just use the lipo that comes with the 2n1 and the other life packs as back ups, i think the lipo that it comes with you would be very satisfied with..im actually selling my other life packs if your interested i can do a good deal theyre hyperions ill do like 33 bucks for both...hope my 2 cents helps

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08-16-2010 04:51 AM  7 years agoPost 3
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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IMO

You can not compare lipos to Nicads?

Lipos need to be requlated unless you have high voltage servos.

Nicads do not need to be requlated and will not work with the align 2 in 1. The voltage is to low.

Old Guys Rule!

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08-16-2010 05:12 AM  7 years agoPost 4
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Nicads. Nominal cell voltage is 1.2 volts. When fully discharged, about 1 volt per cell. Fully charged, about 1.3 volts. They exhibit a fairly flat voltage curve during discharge.

LiPos. Nominal cell voltage is 3.7 volts. When fully discharged about 3 volts per cell. Full charged, about 4.20 volts per cell. They exhibit a fairly flat voltage curve during discharge.

Four Nicads used in series as in typical flight packs have a nominal discharge voltage of 4.8 volts.

Two LiPos wired in series ("2S" ) have a nominal discharge voltage of 7.4 volts.

Three LiPos wired in series ("3S" ) have a nominal discharge voltage of 11.1 volts.

Yes, you CAN regulate Nicads, it simply depends upon how many you wire in series, and what your desired output voltage is.

Most traditional receivers were designed to operate on 4 Nicads wired in series, or 4.8 volts. That means they need to tolerate a fully charged pack of near six volts, and a fully discharged pack of about 4 volts.

If you wanted to use a single LiPo cell, at 3.7 volts, its output voltage is on the low side. Go with two in series, then 7.4 volts is just too high. Therefore, the need to use a regulator capable of regulating that 7.4 volts down to something in the range of 4.8 to about 5.8 volts. Four Nicads in series do NOT require a regulator to work with most receivers built these days.

LiPos have tremendous energy density (milliamp-hours vs physical size) when compared to a similar Nicad pack. LiPos are generally much lighter than a comparable Nicad pack, considering capacity and voltage of the same value.

Nicads (and NiMh -- Nickel-metal hydride) packs have fairly benign charge and discharge characteristics and don't usually exhibit bad habits.

LiPos require a charger designed for LiPo charging and have some undesirable characteristics -- discharge much below that 3.0 volts per cell, you can permanently damage the pack. Improperly charged, or handled, LiPos can and will explode and burn very very hot for a short period of time. Be aware of LiPo's bad characteristics, take care of them, this shouldn't be a reason for not using them.

The Align 2 n 1 is designed to operate with a 7.4 volt input. That would be a 2S LiPo pack. But you COULD use six nicads wired in series if you desired. That pack would be much heavier AND bulkier than its LiPo counterpart.

For your X50 -- if you do go with the Align 2 N 1, it's packaged with a 1900 mah 2S LiPo (or without the LiPo, so you can pick your own 2S pack if you want more mah and flight time between charges).

An advantage the the 2 N 1 has is the built-in glow plug driver. Works fine, and makes you wonder why you ever bothered with a separate glow driver battery.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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08-16-2010 12:51 PM  7 years agoPost 5
ostatebucki1

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Cincinnati, OH, USA

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How many flights with the 2in1/regulator give me with the 1900 pack compared to a 4 cell nicd? Is it worth it to switch over?

Zach
Velocity 50

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08-16-2010 01:15 PM  7 years agoPost 6
CX1

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Canada

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lipo + 2 in 1 = 10 flights
nicad = 4 flights
depending on mah size
weight almost same as a 6v nicad

some change for the higher volts others change for the long charge times

is it worth it?
was for me

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08-16-2010 02:47 PM  7 years agoPost 7
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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A 1900 mah LiPo pack SHOULD give you the same number of flights as a 1900 mah Nicad pack. Capacity is capacity regardless of chemistry.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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08-16-2010 11:49 PM  7 years agoPost 8
CX1

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Canada

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A 1900 mah LiPo pack SHOULD give you the same number of flights as a 1900 mah Nicad pack. Capacity is capacity regardless of chemistry
it's not just chemistry but volts and amps

(a) 6v 1600mah nicad weighs about 180 grams
(b) 12v 1600mah lipo with external bec weighs 145 grams

which 1 will get me the most flights per charge ?

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08-17-2010 12:32 AM  7 years agoPost 9
ostatebucki1

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Cincinnati, OH, USA

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how long does it take to charge a 1900 lipo?

Zach
Velocity 50

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08-17-2010 04:55 AM  7 years agoPost 10
CX1

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Canada

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depends on alot of factors
about 1 hour
can be charged in 15-20 min

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08-17-2010 05:09 AM  7 years agoPost 11
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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CX1 -- 35 grams in a 50 powered heli -- do you really think THAT would make a huge difference in run time in the flight pack battery? You're ignoring the fact that the regulator is NOT 100% efficient in its energy conversion, especially if that regulator is a linear regulator as in the Align 2 N 1.

In your scenario, stepping down from 12 volts to 6 volts is simply a waste of battery to begin with as that's a 3S LiPo when a 2S would be more than sufficient. A 3S Lipo of 1900 mah capacity already weighs more than a 1900 mah 2S LiPo since it contains an extra (unecessary) cell.

Considering that the flight electronics would be the same, the current drawn would not differ between the two power systems. But the regulator would be less efficient than the system without a regulator. To answer your question, then, I'd say the Nicad/NiMh system would have a slight advantage over the LiPo/Regulator system.

As long as a regulator is in the system, power out is always going to be less than power in. The difference between the two is heat.

-----

How long to charge a 1900 mah LiPo? Charge it at a 1C rate, it will take about an hour to charge a completely discharged 1900 mah pack when charging at 1900 ma (the 1C rate).

But then, if it were a 1900 mah Nicad/NiMh, charged at a 1C rate from full discharge, geez, it will still take about an hour at 1900 ma (the 1C rate).

A 1900 mah battery can deliver 1900 mah worth of juice till empty, no matter what the chemistry. And it will take about an hour to fill back up when charged at the 1C rate, again regardless of chemistry.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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08-17-2010 05:19 AM  7 years agoPost 12
CX1

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Canada

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CX1 -- 35 grams in a 50 powered heli -- do you really think THAT would make a huge difference in run time?
it would make a small difference
but your missing the point totally

12v lipo will run longer than a 7.4v lipo or 6V nicad if all 3 had the same mah
if the electronics are pulling 6V @ 3 amps

A lipo can be charged faster than a nicad or nimh
a lipo weighs less
cost less depending where you order from
there are other devices out there called BECS
not just the align 2 in 1

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08-17-2010 05:32 AM  7 years agoPost 13
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Six volts at 3 amps...18 watts.

A one amp-hour battery will deliver one amp for an hour before it is discharged. Terminal voltage does not enter into the equation.

If you have a one amp-hour capacity LiPo and a one amp-hour capacity Nicad, and you apply a one amp load to each battery, which one will be discharged first? How long will it take to drain each battery with a one amp load?

Explain how a 1900 mah capacity LiPo will last longer under a 3 amp load than a 1900 mah capacity Nicad with a 3 amp load after answering the quiz directly above correctly.

----

Hint. Your 12 Volt, 1900 mah capacity LiPo pack will be discharged after it has supplied 1900 mah worth of energy. Your 6V 1900 mah Nicad pack will also be discharged after it has supplied 1900 mah worth of energy. Of course in the first case, you'll have a dead 12V battery, and the in the latter case, a dead 6V battery. But they will both be equally dead after each has supplied 1900 mah worth of juice.

-----

BEC is a buzz word for voltage regulator. There are linear regulators and there are switch-mode regulators. No matter what you call them, or how they work, power IN will ALWAYS be more than power OUT as they will never be 100% efficient.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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08-17-2010 01:07 PM  7 years agoPost 14
CX1

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Canada

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Terminal voltage does not enter into the equation.
Watt???

12V X 1900= 228 W, 7.4V x 1900= 140.6 W , 6 X1900 =114 W: on a system that draws 18 watts

but since voltage doesn't matter
i guess they will discharge at the same rate

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08-17-2010 05:58 PM  7 years agoPost 15
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Keep in mind that watts are a measure of current flow, not of capacity. For capacity, the metric is amp-hours or milliamp-hours. You can't rate a battery in watts . . . there is no factor of time involved.

Watts are defined at either voltage times current, voltage squared over resistance, or current squared times resistance.

Yes, the higher voltage pack ultimately has more energy in it, but unless the BEC is a DC to DC converter, the excess voltage is just lost, and does not contribute to the power available.

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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08-17-2010 09:48 PM  7 years agoPost 16
CX1

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Canada

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Keep in mind that watts are a measure of current flow, not of capacity
watts is the measurement of current used NOT flow
Amps is the measurement of current flow
volts is the strength at which current flows

when you pay your hydro bill do they charge you for amp, volts or watts used ?

so then a 6V system drawing 3 amps will eat 18 w/h
Yes, the higher voltage pack ultimately has more energy in it, but unless the BEC is a DC to DC converter, the excess voltage is just lost, and does not contribute to the power available.
there is no loss you are not drawing volts,
you are burning watts

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08-17-2010 10:00 PM  7 years agoPost 17
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Absolutely false! Watts are a measure of the *RATE* of consumption, and do not have any meaning in terms of total energy consumed. For that, you get into Watt-Hours (In most power service, KiloWatt-Hours). Watts alone is just a rate . . .

Oh, and volts are not "The strength by which current flows" (not sure where you got that one, but obviously not from any actual electrical theory of training.) Volts are a measure of potential difference between to objects/items/points in a circuit/etc. You can have volts with zero current flow . . .

And you did catch me on a syntactical error . . . yes, watts are not a true rate of current, which as you say is amps, but most definitely *ARE* a rate of consumption. Note the *rate* caveat . . . it's the important one . . .

Oh, and when I pay my bill, they don't charge me for any of the things you listed. They charge, once again, in KiloWatt-Hours . . . .

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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08-17-2010 11:36 PM  7 years agoPost 18
CX1

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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Absolutely false! Watts are a measure of the *RATE* of consumption, and do not have any meaning in terms of total energy consumed. For that, you get into Watt-Hours (In most power service, KiloWatt-Hours). Watts alone is just a rate . . .

sorry my typo

watts is the measurement of current being used NOT flow
Amps is the measurement of current flow
volts is the strength at which current flows
Volts are a measure of potential difference between to objects/items/points in a circuit/etc. You can have volts with zero current flow
yes I know you can measure volts with out having current flow
we rate batteries and power supplies by voltage usually
How strong is that battery? 1V 12V 24V

why is it my set-ups yield the following results
3S 1350mah lipo and 5amp bec I get 8-9 flights per charge
2S 4000 mah lipo and align 2in1 I get 6-7 flights per charge
6V nicad 1600 mah I get 3-4 flights per charge

any way I'm tired of explaining this I'm going flyin

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