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Mikado
Logo 600 › Question for all logo 600 se owners
08-13-2010 02:40 AM  7 years agoPost 1
Heli Ace X

rrApprentice

Crystal Lake, IL

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What dont you like about the Logo 600 se? Is there anything?

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08-13-2010 02:49 AM  7 years agoPost 2
Maxime30

rrApprentice

Quebec City, Canada

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I would like 5mm bolts to hold the blades and a metal tail. Other than that, that's THE perfect heli!

Max

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08-13-2010 02:10 PM  7 years agoPost 3
bkervaski

rrElite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

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The only complaint I have is that I think self tapping screws are a bad idea (servos) but this is a fantastic heli!

Edit: Oh yea, and I didn't like having break out the dremel to get my BLS351 elevator servo to clear the frame with the Mikado servo horns.

I was really impressed that it flew perfectly with no tweaking on the V-Bar or mechanics first flight.

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08-13-2010 02:58 PM  7 years agoPost 4
NTM

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Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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The stock tail could be built a bit stronger.
I also don't like mikado's suggestions for power systems for it.
They certainly are on the conservative side.
They should bundle the kontronik pyro 700-45 with it instead of the 700-52.
The 700-52 is weak on 10s and 690mm blades, and too high a kv for use with 12s and 690mm blades.
Where as the 700-45 is a monster on 12s with 690mm blades.

It is hands down the best heli I've ever flown though.

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08-13-2010 05:06 PM  7 years agoPost 5
BennyTRD

rrNovice

Prince Albert SK, Canada

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The only thing I don't like is I haven't been able to fly it enough! It's a great machine. It's definately not a bandaid fix by Mikado for those waiting for the 700. I'm very pleased with the performance and feel of this heli.

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08-13-2010 09:11 PM  7 years agoPost 6
spdntckt

rrApprentice

San Jose, CA USA

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I will probably be flamed for this.. however IMO if we believe mikado looks at these forums and is seeking feedback, we owe it to them and ourselves to be as open as possible..

Disclaimer - I love my logo and would absolutely buy it again, one of the best flying helis out there!

after 200 flights as a stock 600, and another 185 as an SE to date, If i had to give fback on areas of improvement, here would be my list.

-Ele servo horn clearance.. not a huge issue for me as i dont push full collective and full cyclic - however seems like it should clear in stock form even at extreme throws

-5mm blade bolts - covered already

-Stronger/beefier main frames. They seem to crack on even the slightest mishap. Understand this is somewhat the price we pay for rigid and lightweight (not much flex, but it does crack instead).

-Stronger 1-way bearing. The current 1-way was probably fine with yesterday's batteries and motors. however with today's high powered 50mm motors, 45c batteries, and large 690 blades it could use a stronger 1-way

-Stronger/beefier dampeners. After the SE conversion seems like i eat through these much faster than before.

-Integrated locking mechanism on the tail boom. Right now i drill a small hole and put a screw in there to 'key' it from twisting. Without this i seem to twist the boom in the frames all the time. I know others have experienced this as well. Would be nice if there was some sort of 'key' to keep it from twisting

-More flexible battery tray. Perhaps re-locating the vbar sensor would help. As of now (depending on motor size/weight) you can put max ~1300g battery in there without having to add tail weight on the SE.. my 'SE' weighs about 9,5 lbs - very light for a 90 sized.. has its pros and cons, however for many maneuvers and esp. when flying in the wind a slightly heavier heli at around 10lbs is better. (personal opinion). plus if we could fit 12s/5000s in there and still balance we'd get more flight time. (most other e-90's use 12s 5000).

-30mm counter bearing. If running PYRO motors (esp) they have a rather small 6mm main bearing. a counter bearing for these would help with longevity.. not so much an issue with motors like scorpion 4035/5020 which have larger shafts and bearings which are then ground down to fit the 6mm pinions.

-Stronger swash. Swash is very light and functional. however (like the frames) seems to bend/ break too easily (i have never broken a swash except on the logos).

-Integrated static grounding. We all make a home grown mod for this. would be nice if there was some sort of integrated grounding mechanism that was 'built-in'

------

FWIW - we may be asking a lot - as i would bet that most of the above are addressed with their '700' bird whenever it shows up..

At any rate.. again - i love my logo, not meant to be a negative post, but rather an honest opinion after many flights

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08-13-2010 11:17 PM  7 years agoPost 7
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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logo 600SE
I would like 5mm bolts to hold the blades and a metal tail. Other than that, that's THE perfect heli!
While it would be nice for Mikado to have their own fixes...i am not that patient...so the fix for me was to use a 90 sized RJX head and then replacing all the stock tail parts with metal RJX ones and some I2 tail parts..

the rjx head is beefy and handles the power no problem...as for the tail...the parts are less than the cost of Mikado and they work well so it makes perfect sense for me..

there are lots of pics of the metal tails I use in my gallery if you need to see them..

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08-14-2010 01:15 AM  7 years agoPost 8
NTM

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Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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But I think it's worth mentioning that any alterations or upgrading aren't actually necessary for the 600se's intended purpose.
It flies excellent right out of the box, stock tail with 105mm blades and all.
It's not designed to haul heavy 12s 5000mah packs and belt out 7000 watts at 2100+ rpm headspeed.
It's intended to provide it's performance at 1900 rpm and under through it's very light weight (compared to most .90 size).
Add heavier airframe parts, packs, motors, etc. and you kind of miss the sweetness that this heli's all about.

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08-14-2010 01:56 AM  7 years agoPost 9
Maxime30

rrApprentice

Quebec City, Canada

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It's true that the metal tail isn't needed if you run at the intended 1800 rpm maximum. But I still think that 5mm bolts is better. I've seen 4mm bolts bend at 1800rpm on a custom machine running 690s (custom machine with a Logo head).

Max

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08-14-2010 02:10 AM  7 years agoPost 10
aviation

rrVeteran

Quebec Canada

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Question for all logo 600 se owners
I am sure that there isn't one guy who would trade his Mikado for any other helicopter, nevertheless there is one other little item that I have found on my 500SE and I have seen it on the 600 and 600SE's as well. Every couple of weeks I need to tightnen all of the bolts that are part of the frame and have nylock nuts. It seems that for some reason they either stretch or some how come loose, which when doing the hard maneuvers seem to twist the frame and then strip the main gear. I have seen it on both the .7 and 1.0 gears, so make sure that you check all of the frame bolts and bearing block bolts.

For me there is no other machine that even comes close so I am waiting for the new frame to come on the market and hopefully this will rectify this minor issue.

aviation

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08-14-2010 05:37 AM  7 years agoPost 11
NTM

rrVeteran

Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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The deep shouldered 4mm bolts are fine, the old short shank mikado 4mm bolts are not. They were the ones that would bend, and were replaced with the long shank bolts a year or two ago.
I've put over 100 flights on my one 600se with edge 690mm blades now. 1900 rpm and hard 3d, the bolts are still arrow straight, checked them yesterday.
My other 600se with 693mm insane's is fine as well.

That's wierd about the frame bolts, I've never seen or heard of anything like that and have nearly 1000 flights on the logo 500/600 airframes
I'd dare to say you've got some high frequency vibes happening there.
Strange on the gears too, I know guys knocking 5000+ watts through the mod 1's and flying so hard it looks like the blades will break at any moment.

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08-14-2010 05:41 AM  7 years agoPost 12
aviation

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Quebec Canada

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Question for all logo 600 se owners
No vibration, just loose bolts, I took the blades all off and put my hand on the tail boom and no vibration. Put back the blades and still no vibration. Problem is solved, I just wondered if any one else has had the problem and just for curiosity, check you frame bolts and see if you can tightnen them a little more.

aviation

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08-14-2010 06:44 PM  7 years agoPost 13
Kiba

rrApprentice

CA

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The only things I changed on my 600SE is the tail; like Jag72 I went all RJX (tail hub & grips, pitch slider, and control arm.) While the stock Mikado plastic tail grips should be OK at 1900rpm or less I didn't want to worry about throwing a 105mm blade in flight. I also added a KSJ boom brace bridge as I did notice a bit of "dance" to the braces during harder moves when flying.

I've had my 600SE in the air for almost 2 weeks now with 34 flights on it and love every minute of it. Smooth, quiet, and tracks great. My headspeeds are 1625/1750/1850. I fly it mostly at 1750rpm doing big air aerobatics and light 3D stuff like rainbows, funnels, tictocs, etc. 1750 is more than enough for how I can currently fly and it's easy on batteries-- I can squeeze 9 minutes out of my 12S 4000 packs at 1750 rpm and take out 80% at the most.

As others have said this isn't a "true" 700 and it has plenty of power and pop even at 1850-1900 rpm because it's so light. Also, as Dave Dahl observed it has a tendency to eat the stock head dampers much above 1900rpm. I don't get fixated on having a ridiculously high headspeed as many people seem to do and only run as much headspeed as I need to fly my usual routine-- and as of right now 1750 with +/- 12 pitch gets the job done perfectly.

As far as spdntckt mentioned the boom rotating in the frame-- if you ground the boom the way Mikado suggests with their grounding kit (which came in the box with my 600SE) the front grounding screw ends up pinning the boom to the frame.

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08-15-2010 07:11 AM  7 years agoPost 14
whaleboy

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, CA

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Kiba...

What is your setup? Motor, ESC, bat type/weight (or brand). I had been considering a larger electric, but short flight times have made me reconsider. If I can get 9 min on the flight style you describe (mine exactly), that would be great. I'd prefer to use my existing 6s/5000 packs, but they are very heavy and I'm told the 600SE will not balance correctly with them. If I can buy the inexpensive turnigy 6s/4000 30c packs, and get 9 min, I just may need to pick up one of these helis...

Anyone else getting similar times doing sport with some light 3d thrown in here and there?

Thanks

-David

Synergy N9; E-Aurora; Logo600se; Logo500; Logo400;Trex500;
All FBL..

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08-15-2010 07:40 AM  7 years agoPost 15
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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Out of the box it's fine but on mine i got rid of most of the problems by using the kaos frames i.e more battery space better boom tightening, more rigid etc so i reckon mik carbon frames will be better even, when we can get them. As NTM mentioned the motor of choice on 12s is the pyro 700-45. For the head i'm dissapointed with the RJX head quality, (notchy bearings misaligned headblock) so am running stock on one and TDR head on my second efp project. RJX tail is good however.
However for what mik wanted to achieve with the SE no upgrades are neccessary it will fly awsewome as is but i reckon the 12s system should be supported by them albeit at 1850 headspeed which as others have mentioned is more than enough.
@ whaleboy, my friend ran a 12s 5000 setup with scorpion but added a small stick on weight to tailfin so it's possible, with the pyro motor being lighter it may even balance out, for max flight times you have to go lowest KV and smallest pinion (11t 6mm mod 1) and jive esc as it's the only one that can really handle the lower headspeed percentages. I reckon you'll easily get more than 10 mins on such a setup running 1600 headspeed and still enough for any 3d you can dish out

Common sense may not be common after all

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08-15-2010 07:48 AM  7 years agoPost 16
Kiba

rrApprentice

CA

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Kiba...

What is your setup? Motor, ESC, bat type/weight (or brand). I had been considering a larger electric, but short flight times have made me reconsider. If I can get 9 min on the flight style you describe (mine exactly)
I'm running a Xera 4035-3Y 400kv, 12T pinion, Jive 80HV, 12S 4000 Turnigy Nano-Techs (about 1350g for the two batteries plus an aluminum bottom tray and a carbon fiber top tray.) The entire setup balances perfectly with no need for any added weight. Initial slow piros were perfectly level but I tried a trimflight anyways; the trimflight added no elevator or aileron correction whatsoever so the CG and mechanical setup was perfect to begin with. Can't ask for anything more!

I can get 12 minutes out of it at 1625 rpm flying circuits and the occasional big easy loops and rolls. I can also throw in large slow easy funnels, rainbows, death spirals, and tailslides down at 1625 but that ups the amp draw; however 10 minutes at 1625 doing "slow 3D" is still possible. I find the slow 3D thing at low headspeed rather fun and relaxing-- it's easy to make corrections and it makes collective management much more critical than when flying a higher headspeed. The heli will still do everything you want it to do at the lower headspeed but you have to take the moves a little slower and be better with the collective.

I flew 4 packs today at 1725 flying 8:30 on the timer per flight (by the time I landed I was usually at 8:50 to 9:10) and took out between 5500-5980 mah from the packs depending on how hard I flew with each pack. 5980mah is right at 75% pack capacity. Wind was about 20mph today too.

I really, really like this heli. I was flying my Trex 500 which has 5 minute flight times just before the 600SE; on the first pack through the 600SE I caught myself putting it into a hover a couple of times to check the timer because I figured it was time to land... but I still had a couple more minutes left.

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08-16-2010 06:04 PM  7 years agoPost 17
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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Out of the box it's fine but on mine i got rid of most of the problems by using the kaos frames
+1 on the Kaos frames. Some people enjoy customizing their machines and I'm definately one of those. Doing so has always been a big part of the hobby for me. And with some pretty good results. Sideplate frames are just so much easier to work with.
For example, I just finished putting in a hub with dual one-ways stacked and ball bearings on each end to solve the one-way power limitation. As this extends the main shaft down into the battery. I repositioned my batteries up in front....and maintained a perfect CG without having to add any weights or anything. It's easy to move things around in a sideplate frame.
Now, this makes the bird a little less easy to fly (higher CG) but it's even quicker and more agile and rolls tighter. I prefer a more neutrally stable heli anyway so for me this is a big plus. Then I have a rotor on it which has run 710's at 2100 RPM with no problem...even had it up to 2300 for a bit just to try to break it.
Next I just have to get to the tail and I've got a pretty insane machine...and I haven't really added much weight to it in the process.
To be stuck with "this is the way it needs to be built" would never EVER work for me.

Team POP Secret

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Logo 600 › Question for all logo 600 se owners
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