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HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › YS56 problems :-/
08-09-2010 07:10 AM  7 years agoPost 1
aliosha323

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Los Angeles, California

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Hey guys,

so after a whole weekend of trying to sdort this out, i've come to you guys for help before i send her back to the distributor

Heres the problem:

It wont keep running after past half throttle. She'll just quit on me. Adjusted my needles back to stock, to no avail. I also noticed that she's got a fluctuating idle, only happens at start-up which led me to believe that ive got a leak. Checked EVERYTHING, no leak. So after gettiong real frustrated and getting nowhere, i decided to goto my LHS, With not one, but THREE guys trying to trouble shoot, we came across the conclusion that my check valve was the wrong one (mine didnt come with one, so YS sent me out a YS60st check valve) So I went and got another check valve and guess what, Same problem! If i disconnect my check valve, she runs rich and good, with it, hot and wont transition from idle to hover.... sounds like shes not getting fuel during midrange transition. Also noticed my tank pressure is not very strong after shut-off at all. just a slight hiss of air. What do i do??!!

Running:

Rotor Rage 30%
OS #8
(previosuly ran Enya 3 but burned that one up...)
Outrage Hr55 pipe
Check valve cleaned and installed properly, and 35mm away from crankcase

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08-09-2010 08:36 AM  7 years agoPost 2
Smok

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Antwerp, Belgium

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If the engine runs rich w/o the valve but quits and burns plugs when the valve is installed - then maybe the valve is installed in the opposite direction ??

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08-09-2010 12:17 PM  7 years agoPost 3
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Well you did not say if it was new, rebuilt, crashed, switched fuels, time on engine, did it get hot, give us all the info you have maybe we can help. Crystal ball not working right now.

Chris

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08-09-2010 12:48 PM  7 years agoPost 4
James3922

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Scotland

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Have you tried moving the check valve closer to the back-plate? This should increase pressure.

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08-09-2010 01:56 PM  7 years agoPost 5
KevinB

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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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If you manually pressurize your tank a little, let it sit 5 minutes, and then release the clamp, do you get a rush of air ?

I changed the rear bearing on my 56 on the weekend because it was sounding a little rough. While I had the engine apart, I saw that one piston pin retaining circlip had lost it's tang. I was lucky and it didn't score the piston on it's way out. I have seen pictures of other engines where the owner wasn't as lucky. If you had a bad groove in the piston, the engine wouldn't make the proper back pressure either. If you run out of options to try, I would disassemble and check for internal damage.

KevinB

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08-10-2010 03:07 AM  7 years agoPost 6
aliosha323

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Los Angeles, California

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thanks for all the replies guys. I got it to work today by doing the simplest thing possible, changing the plug! stupid me.... Turns out the OS #8 plug I had in there would start my engine, but would die as soon as the onboard igniter would go out, so i changed to an OS #7 and bam! working motor

Question #1 - should I be running this plug? (manual states: OS#8, Enya 3, YS 2)

Im running Byron Rotor Rage 30% (used since the begining)
High needle - 2 1/8
Hover needle - 1 turn
Low needle - untouched

The engine is now on its 7th tank (brand new motor) and temps with easy flying are maxing out at 178F

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08-10-2010 03:20 AM  7 years agoPost 7
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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I would say you are on the rich side by quite a bit, you should be able to run a little richer with a slightly hotter plug like the 7 though. Start going in a few clicks at a time, when close a click will make a difference, providing you are holding pressure. Start with factory settings.

Chris

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08-10-2010 09:37 PM  7 years agoPost 8
CoronaL

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Winnebago IL

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NOT rich, at least for now.

be easy on it, it's still breaking in. Well almost there, but be easy on it. YS will run lower temp, especially with your fuel. I would shoot for 185-195 temps when you wail on it, on the fins just under the head.

But don't tune based on temps. You can use it as a reference, but not the sole basis of your tune.

Get the mid running well then once you get a good couple more tanks on it, then start hammering on it. Check the transisition from mid/high and adjust accordingly. The YS you'll adjust the mid a bit more frequent than the high, as it covers more "area" for tunings. One click on a YS does MORE adjusting than one click on an OS. so don't get greedy/impatient and start adjusting more than 1-2 clicks at a time unless you really are comfortable tuning motors and listening to how well it's running. Better safe than sorry.

PS the OS7 is a decent plug. it's probably the. 2nd best plug for the YS56 behind the Enya 3. Enya plugs later longer and probably run a touch better overall. The OS7 is good in power, but wont' last as/ long as even an OS8, so figure on changing it more frequently once you notice issues with tuning, idle, transition, power etc...

Randy!!! I am the liquor

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08-10-2010 10:05 PM  7 years agoPost 9
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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We have been through this before, the hone leaves ridges on the liner wall, under compression the gas pressure pushes the ring toward the liner wall, less gas pressure less ring pressure. It takes high gas pressures found near full throttle to seat the ring properly. The hone ridges work as long as the oil can't form a flim over the ridges, the ridges wear very fast so the cutting ability of the ridges dull fast. When the oil can form a film over the ridges the break-in is almost complete, they now help hold the oil for lubrication purposes. If you go too easy the oil will cook and glaze the liner and fill the valleys, now the ring rides over and does not take the shape of the liner, plus you take away places for the oil to sit. Add to that the more difference in temperatures the larger the change in engine distortion, so you want to be at or near the temperature the engine will run at. From the manual,( However, the engine should be adjusted SLIGHTLY on the rich setting for the first few flights to insure proper break-in.). The engine will run hotter during break-in due to increased friction and the ring not passing as much heat away as when seated. The little extra fuel helps wash the heat and particles away. This happens fast and if done right the engine will continue to produce more power over time.

Chris

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08-11-2010 02:01 AM  7 years agoPost 10
aliosha323

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Los Angeles, California

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Airdodger-
Wow. I understand what you're saying to a T. But how can I check for this? I'm running my mid at 1 turn, and my high at 3 clicks before two turns out. My temps are 150 at hover, and between 195-210 with cruising around. The transition from idle to hover is still abit sluggish and I'm still getting a pretty decent amount of trail smoke at hover. The guy at my lhs set my max throttle curve(dx7) to be at 65% since I don't have a gov. So that's the most I've gotten her up to speed with. I also switched to a enys 3 plug today and she runs good. Also, I noticed that right before my tanks runs empty she runs alittle lean/rpm's increase... I thought the ys wasn't supposed to do this?? Ill take a peek at my sleeve since uve mentioned this now because I crashed my bird today (lost tail control because my brass sleve slider came undone. Now thanls to a $2 part, I'm looking at $100 in parts. But it atcually couldve been worse:-/ )

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08-11-2010 02:58 AM  7 years agoPost 11
Pulento

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CHILE

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Mmmm. %65 is a bit low to me that will never get the engine to WOT to be able to break in.

If you're getting 210F just cruising and your max throttle is %65 which means you are barely touching the high needle I would say something is wrong.

You're high is rich but on %65 you are not getting there, and to me your mid is lean.

Allow your NOR curve to get to %100 and tune again. Try to get a YS owner to help you on your tuning.

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08-11-2010 11:39 AM  7 years agoPost 12
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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You need to have full throttle travel and a correct pitch curve to adjust the engine. What Pulento said above, If you are new get someone to help, real heli guys will always try to help.

Chris

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08-11-2010 02:52 PM  7 years agoPost 13
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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Agree, I think the LHS lead you down the wrong path at 65%.
The YS56 does take a long time to fully break in, gallons for mine. That is not bad news, in my experience, the well made engines are tighter and take more run time. Keep it rich until it is broken in.
The nice part is the YS makes good power under 200 degrees.

From my experience, The OS #7 (hotter plug) seems to work better on 20% nitro fuels, the OS # 8 on 30% nitro.

http://www.osengines.com/accys/glowplugs.html

While mine was breaking in, I left the mid range on the rich side, then there is some cooling down if you go a bit lean with the high speed needle. Now that it has at least 15 gallons through it, the needles do not need much adjusting compared to OS 50,55 and YS 50.

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08-17-2010 01:35 AM  7 years agoPost 14
aliosha323

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Los Angeles, California

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Ive got anothwer question for you guys... Today I ran woodies with a tach quage reading 1900 as my headspeed, yet i can without a doubt hear that my motor has not gottem into the power band yet. I know this becuase when I get on the trottle/collective to raise my heli it enters the powerband, but i'm afraid of disintigrating my blades since the HS increases at this zone. Im running the stock t-rex sport gearing and my pitch on my standard pitch curve is set for 4deg for hover at mid stick.... how do i get into this "power band" without raising my HS??

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08-17-2010 01:45 AM  7 years agoPost 15
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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You going to say what or if the previous problem was solved? Five degrees is usually around hover, raise the pitch and that will load the engine more. I don't know what headspeed those blades can take but I would find out.

Chris

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08-19-2010 02:19 PM  7 years agoPost 16
Chuckie

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Crofton Maryland

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I agree with airdodger, you need to fix the motor needle settings and carb to get full open throttle with the tx stick at full first. Your needle settings with 1 turn on mid are way too lean. I recommend 1.1 turn on high and 1.6 turns on mid.

Because you want to hover at mid stick (4 degrees collective) the throttle curve will be more linear. Most guys run zero at mid stick so a J throttle curve is needed. At mid stick with zero pitch if you run 50% throttle the blades will over speed before take off.

Set full collective pitch to 10 to 12 degrees. At full throttle the YS will have the power to over speed on climb out with only 12 degrees. I run Rotor Tech 615 blades and at +-13 the YS56 can over speed on full climb out without the gov on. I normally run 2100 HS in all flight modes.

Please stand by for faster service!

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08-19-2010 02:27 PM  7 years agoPost 17
aliosha323

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Los Angeles, California

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Wow I thought I had mentioned that I got her working earlier this week!... Turns out it was a combination of two very simple fixes: W. I replaced the enya plug with another #3 plug, and I adjusted my low end because factory settings were to lean for my set-up.
Anyways, thanks everyone for all of your help! There's still a few more things to do before she's where I want her, but I'm sure with all the info you guys have given me here it should'nt be too hard

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08-21-2010 08:55 PM  7 years agoPost 18
aliosha323

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Los Angeles, California

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Correction for the sake of some of my fellow heli flyers, " WE fixed my motor problems (i.e.Lucas, Rich, AND me ;D)"
*Cough*Cough* happy rich!?!

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08-22-2010 03:37 PM  7 years agoPost 19
rich afflerback

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willingboro nj

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AS A matter of fact I am lol

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HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › YS56 problems :-/
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