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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Mikado
Logo 600 News  31 minute flight on Logo 600 SE (with video now).
07-03-2010 05:14 PM  7 years agoPost 1
Scorpion SystemrrAdvertiser - Hong Kong - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have seen some really amazing slow 3D flight 2 weeks ago at the V stabi meeting in Germany! slow and graceful way of flight!
during the meeting have talked to Nico of Team Mikado and Matt of team Henseleit about their "EFP" ( Efficient flight project) 30 mint flight attempt!
so after i came home i start my own EFP, after 2 weeks i finally made it more or less,
first try was with HK4035-500 with 11T module 1 pinion, at 50% governor, Logo 600 SE, 10S 5000 35C Hyperion lipos, got 16 minutes flight, about 1500 to 1600 head speed.

second try was with a HK4035-400, still 11T pinion, 50% governor, head speed at about 1300, 21 minutes flight, then at 35 % governor, 1200 head speed more or less, got 26 minutes flight.

3rd try with the advice from Nico Niewind I made a HK4035 to 330KV, at 32% governor the head speed is about 960, just flying around and hovering today I was able to fly for 31 minutes consuming 4712 Mah out of the 5000 Mah pack,

nearly every pilot in the 3D world are always looking for POWER, flying with crazy head speed, but the results is very short flight time, i was amazed to see how much energy you can save by using lower head speed, most of the energy people use are just to turn the blades but not really to create lift, by hovering and flying around at 960 head speed, the amp draw is under 10 amps, and you can still do some slow aerobatics, at 1200 you can do it with ease, and 1350 you can pretty much do the same as most of the general 3D guys dose, just slower, and you can easily get close to 20 minutes of flight time, plus 1 great benefit for me, since some time my reflex are not as fast as they used to be, now i can fly and think for my next move, and it;s actually relaxing to fly like this, plus the very nice blade noise at 960 head speed, it's nearly like a real chopper, ( UH1), if you just do some basic aerobatics, mild 3D, you have to try this!! it's so much fun!! and now you can easily out fly any nitro guys in terms of flight time!

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07-03-2010 05:31 PM  7 years agoPost 2
FloridaHeli

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jacksonville, florida

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That was a very interesting post. I'm going to have to try that. The thinking ahead part and longer flight times I really like.

Thanks for sharing.

This hobby is WAY too expensive!!

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07-03-2010 05:40 PM  7 years agoPost 3
georgesvanganse

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HKG

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cost?!

"This hobby is WAY too expensive!!"
not just about flight time and able to think a head, I think at this head speed, if you crash, the dameges are going to be minimal as well!!

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07-03-2010 10:05 PM  7 years agoPost 4
hulley

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Ga.

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Isnt that stressfull on the ESC to run at that low of %? I'm running a 4035-500kv, 11t on a 12s in a L600 and I get a pretty good flight time but I dont go below 75% for fear of burning up the esc. That puts me around 2100hs. I could easliy go lower for my type of flying.

Eat Sleep 3D

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07-03-2010 10:14 PM  7 years agoPost 5
helinutz

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Bournemouth, Dorset, UK

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I've been told by someone much more knowledgable than me, that the kontronik ESC's can cope with really low settings.
Something to do with the way they "switch" the power on and off to the motor, rather than restricting the current.
Anyone else heard the same or could comment?
Been running my Jive 80HV at 40% for the last 6 months with no side effects so far.

>>>>>I'm so broke, I cant even pay attention!<<<<<

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07-03-2010 10:18 PM  7 years agoPost 6
tripergreenfeet

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SA

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I was told a couple of days ago about your 21 minute flight, Hayden of Full Pitch filled me in. Thought to myself this is something I will have to try with my Volt 800 when it's finished.

31 minutes is unreal, did the V-Bar have any issues with the lower HS...instability in the head for instance?

I would also like to know how the ESC faired at low settings, what temps was it hitting?

Getting the HS down to 960rpm on 690's I reckon a HS of around 800rpm is possible with 800's

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07-03-2010 10:22 PM  7 years agoPost 7
hulley

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Ga.

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Thats good to know, I could easily lower my HS to 1700-1800 and do what I'm still doing no problem.

Eat Sleep 3D

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07-03-2010 10:23 PM  7 years agoPost 8
SGrim80

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Lehigh Valley, PA

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Interesting. Surprised noone else mentioned about taking 4700mah out of a 5000mah pack. 95% of the pack used isn't good for pack life. Interested to see if it matters at that low an amp draw.

VIDEO PLEASE!

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07-03-2010 10:34 PM  7 years agoPost 9
hulley

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Ga.

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Interesting. Surprised noone else mentioned about taking 4700mah out of a 5000mah pack. 95% of the pack used isn't good for pack life. Interested to see if it matters at that low an amp draw.
Minor details!

Eat Sleep 3D

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07-03-2010 10:45 PM  7 years agoPost 10
Brubache

rrNovice

Vancouver, Canada

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Would something similar work for my 500? I only get 5min flights before I land. I take 3500 or so out of a 5000mah pack.

Say 11 tooth or so and lower my gov on my kontronik 80lv do it?

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07-03-2010 10:52 PM  7 years agoPost 11
dahld

rrKey Veteran

Bakersfield, CA, USA

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"4700 mah out of 5000 mah" Goin' for broke

Georges, we've always had the philosophy that high head speeds aren't needed to fly good 3D. In fact, lower head speeds will increase your 3D skills faster than collective pumping around the sky ever will

Nice accomplishment!

(-: Dave

PS: Collective "pop" has its place, but not as a crutch to learn good 3D skills.

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07-03-2010 11:07 PM  7 years agoPost 12
Hati

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Perth, Australia

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That was my line of thinking too Dave. I always thought that a lot of people run high headspeeds simply because everyone else does AND to compensate for their lack of collective management. I never had interest in 3D, so I started off with (relatively) low headspeeds on a 500SE with 603 blades and 6S Lipo. I can closely relate to this attempt, makes me feel justified in my approach

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07-04-2010 12:49 AM  7 years agoPost 13
hulley

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Ga.

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I just did two flights after dropping my ESC from 80% to 65% which brings me down to just over 2000 HS and I went from using 2000mah to 1520mah from my turnigy 3000mah packs. My Hyperions do even better due to them being 45C batteries.

Eat Sleep 3D

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07-04-2010 04:20 AM  7 years agoPost 14
georgesvanganse

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HKG

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"I would also like to know how the ESC faired at low settings, what temps was it hitting?"

first flight was on a 35 degree C day, the ESC was about 55 degree, i have then instaled a small cooling fan on it, now it land with the temperature of less then 45 degree C.

Interesting. Surprised noone else mentioned about taking 4700mah out of a 5000mah pack. 95% of the pack used isn't good for pack life. Interested to see if it matters at that low an amp draw.
yes, I know it's bad for the lipo, but it was an attempt to fly over 30 minutes, so had to do it, if you look at the last log, close to 20 minutes flight and only using a bit more then 3000 Mah, the lipo is more then safe if you fly for just 20 minutes, and in any case, flying for 30 minutes none stop, my arm is the first to want to let go! so for now, I'm very happy to fly for just 20 minutes at a time.

VIDEO PLEASE!
will try to make some today.

Would something similar work for my 500? I only get 5min flights before I land. I take 3500 or so out of a 5000mah pack.
Say 11 tooth or so and lower my gov on my kontronik 80lv do it?

I'm sure it will work.

PS: Collective "pop" has its place, but not as a crutch to learn good 3D skills.

you are totaly right here!!

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07-04-2010 02:56 PM  7 years agoPost 15
georgesvanganse

rrNovice

HKG

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a quick flight, Log and video

just a quick flight demo, and sorry,I'm not a good heli pilot, so just regular flying!
this is just to alow you guys to hear the blade noise and see how it fly at this head speed.
Georges

Watch at YouTube

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07-05-2010 05:25 PM  7 years agoPost 16
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Interesting and excellent Georges!!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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07-05-2010 07:21 PM  7 years agoPost 17
NTM

rrVeteran

Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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Very cool Georges !
Sounds neat at 1000 rpm.

What modifications to the dampers and/or spindle were necessary to run such low rpm ?

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07-06-2010 10:43 AM  7 years agoPost 18
georgesvanganse

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HKG

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I did not change any thing, all original from Mikado Kit.

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07-06-2010 11:34 AM  7 years agoPost 19
worldofmaya

rrApprentice

Graz, Styria - Austria

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Really great! And really interesting graphs
Maybe another interesting component to improve flight time are blades. A company called Spinblades posted a video with their half-symmetric blades on a 600SE at 6s and low head-speed on Youtube... especially the auto-rotation at the end is fascinating!
-Klaus

Watch at YouTube

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07-06-2010 12:14 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Matt FinkerrNovice - Marburg, Hessen - Germany - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

EFP Project

Hey Georges ! Great Work ! cool that you have picked up this idea that quickly.

Nico and i started the EFP Project (efficient flying project) last winter in germany and finalized it until march 2010 we been flying the LOGO 600 710 stretched as well as the Henseleit TDR both over 30min. without consuming the batterie at 100%.

My final flight that can be easily reproduced was 30mins. with head speeds between 1050 - 1250 with these settings everything is possible ANY 3D MANEUVER can be done, only pitch feels a bit like a bungee and you need to work harder on the pitch stick. Of course the movements are not that hard like they are with 1950 which is also a lot`s of fun but it`s great to fly this way and i would never re-convert my EFP TDR.

Most importend seems to be :

- low RPM
- high % on the ESC about 80% at 1250 on my system
- light weight blades to overcome the gyroscopic forces easy (RADIX SB 710 on my system)
- low RPM VBar setup VStabi in my case / Settings available at VStabi Forum
- System as light as possible
- Big Battery (if you really would love to go for the half hour) 12S 5800mah on my TDR.

Hope you all enjoy low rotation flying. All the best

Matt

Matt Finke

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Logo 600 News  31 minute flight on Logo 600 SE (with video now).
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