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06-06-2010 07:27 PM  7 years agoPost 21
Aaron29

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USA

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If your God exists me and all the atheists and agnostics and people's of other religions are WRONG. If no God exists, you and every other person of faith can talk about all the most unfalsifiable crap you like - and extend/interpret/read into/re-interpret etc - and it would amount to NOTHING.
People hold opinions all the time, and only one may be the right one. The problem isn't the opinion. The problem is someone thinks their opinion entitles them to abuse others for holding theirs.

This goes for both sides of the fence.

Religion isn't the problem. Intolerance is. And if your religion is intolerant then your religion also becomes a problem.

Someone ought to write protection of religion into a national constitution or something. Oh yeah, they did.

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06-06-2010 07:29 PM  7 years agoPost 22
Dennis (passed)

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Oregon

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People hold opinions all the time, and only one may be the right one. The problem isn't the opinion. The problem is someone thinks their opinion entitles them to abuse others for holding theirs.

This goes for both sides of the fence.

Religion isn't the problem. Intolerance is. And if your religion is intolerant then your religion also becomes a problem.

Someone ought to write protection of religion into a national constitution or something. Oh yeah, they did.
Well said Aaron. Thanks.

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06-06-2010 07:57 PM  7 years agoPost 23
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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The problem is someone thinks their opinion entitles them to abuse others for holding theirs.
no, it's usually NOT the opinion or else we will end up arguing over interpretation of religious text.

certain religious texts make it clear that it's "wrong" to be homosexual and that there is something wrong with you if you are. Certain texts say that women should always be subordinate to men etc. . and that this is right and that is wrong. And that their God is the one God and if no one believes they will go to Hell.

That's not opinions, that's dogma written down for people who follow it and impose/sanction it.

they really have no place in the present world we live in.

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06-06-2010 08:07 PM  7 years agoPost 24
str8den

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NE U.K

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^^^you are so funny.

'its the end of the world as we know it!'

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06-06-2010 08:18 PM  7 years agoPost 25
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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certain religious texts make it clear that it's "wrong" to be homosexual and that there is something wrong with you if you are.
What does Darwinism say about homosexuality?

I don't imagine you have to be religious to not wonder what gay folks are doing when they spread their seed into someone elses reject port. What is the purpose on non-moral, non-religious grounds to explain how this behaviour is productive in any way?

It's like a guy beating his head into a wall. Sure he isn't hurting anyone, but isn't there better use of his time?
Certain texts say that women should always be subordinate to men etc.
OK. What is your point? I know a lot of PW'ed guys and many of them are Christians. Let a man try to subjugate his wife and she will either accept it happily, if it is in her nature, or she will resist, and the man can accept that (or go to prison trying to dominate her.) Point being is who cares if someone thinks women should be subordinate to men? It is only when that subordination is pushed through abuse that it becomes a problem, and this is addressed outside of religious life in this country.
and that this is right and that is wrong. And that their God is the one God and if no one believes they will go to Hell.
Again I believe that black is the best color for a car and that if you get a white car you are dumb. So what what I think?

If you don't believe in heaven and hell what possible harm is the doctrine doing to you? It's just words you can take them or leave them.

What would you have us do? Censor all religion? That sounds like an ideal society, let someone else decide what I'm allowed to express.

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06-06-2010 08:50 PM  7 years agoPost 26
Dennis (passed)

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Oregon

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What would you have us do? Censor all religion? That sounds like an ideal society, let someone else decide what I'm allowed to express.
Therein lies the fallacy of Atheism.

They feel so strongly hateful against religion (mostly Christianity), that their words are much to the point of banishing religion (Christianity) altogether.

That alone speaks a lot for the intolerance and hate of atheism. Although non violent in most cases, I feel its as damaging as Radical Islam is.

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06-06-2010 09:00 PM  7 years agoPost 27
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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It's just words you can take them or leave them.
but then again that brings us to the whole point of what means to have "faith" doesn't it.

It may be just words, but for many they live by it. It is not an opinion - but as set of rules to live your life. Do you now see where the intolerance starts?

How can you be tolerant when your faith requires, as a logical precondition, that you "believe"/accept what is written. You are now faced with 2 choices: object what is written, thereby questioning whether such a God exists, or follow blindly. There is no middle way. You either know your God and faith or you don't.
What does Darwinism say about homosexuality?
you don't need to bring Darwinism into this. Darwinism says nothing one way or the other about homosexuality. Like Quantum Mechanics, General Relativity, Algebraic Geometry, Numerical Analysis etc. . . they cannot ever impose, but are just logically consistent constructs which we make use of to further our technological advancement. They have a purpose, but imposing moral judgment is not one of them. No scientific theory can really do so.

tell me the difference between the following 2 statements:

1) I don't like the 8FG because it's too light and doesn't suit my hands
2) the 10C does not do CCPM mixing as well as an 8FG

only the first is an opinion and can be respected since transmitter comfort is a personal thing - there is no right or wrong in this. The second is not an opinion, just a statement of fact (see Futaba if you want verification).

The question I want to ask is how can tolerance ever be achieved if certain group's beliefs/faiths are totally intolerant of the human rights of others?

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06-06-2010 09:09 PM  7 years agoPost 28
str8den

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NE U.K

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Therein lies the fallacy of Atheism.

They feel so strongly hateful against religion (mostly Christianity), that their words are much to the point of banishing religion (Christianity) altogether.
like with any group, not all athiest/agnostics want to supress or want a ban on religon.
any guidance to person or group of people that has some sort of positive effect must be good for all concerned.
it may be dis-illsionment that will causes a person to have such extreme views towards one thing or another, and if christianity embraces monogamy and hetro-sexuality, then christianity has made an enemy of homo-sexuals.

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06-06-2010 09:12 PM  7 years agoPost 29
Dennis (passed)

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Oregon

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and if christianity embraces monogamy and hetro-sexuality, then christianity has made an enemy of homo-sexuals.
Enemy?

You mean like Radical Islam that would rather kill them?

I would think an enemy would be someone that wishes you harm in some way or death.

Show us how Christianity is an ENEMY of Gays.

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06-06-2010 09:15 PM  7 years agoPost 30
str8den

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NE U.K

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Enemy? You mean like Radical Islam that would rather kill them? Thats hardly the way of Christianity.
no dennis, i meant that if that is the christian belief, then homo-sexuals will not like it, they either be indifferent, try to twist the 'word,' or plain simply attack your religion at every oppertunity.

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06-06-2010 09:30 PM  7 years agoPost 31
helicopter

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Omaha, Nebraska

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Cats:

I really do appreciate your 'reasoning' minds.

But you all just keep misunderstanding my thoughts.

God is real. He Hates religion.

All he requires of us, His Beautiful Creation, is to
develope a personal relationship with HIM.

The happens in our hearts, souls, and brain, when we
come to HIM as His command is to do: By Faith in the
Death and Resurrection of the ONE He sent to SAVE us.

Save us from WHAT? You ask?

From DEATH.

Listen dudes, if you want to die, just forget my posts.
I am trying to reach one soul who might be able to hear
the voice of God calling to that one soul through me.

{And all you do is argue - completely and always missing the point.}

God, our Creator, has fashioned A WAY (One Way) to arise from
death into new Life. This is My Message from God.

Argue all you desire. In the end, at the end of YOUR LIFE,
if you have NOT received the GIFT of God of Eternal Life
in Christ Jesus - You will die without hope of reparation.

Your eternal soul will awake in the most awesome pitchblack
darkness (Where there is absolutely no LIGHT.) Forget about
partying with your drinking pals in hell...

God sent ME to YOU here today to tell you of His Love!

THE RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ is TRUE.

It can be TRUE for you also, if, and only if you
take God at His WORD and simply BELIEVE HIM.

(Someone - under the control of the devil - once told YOU
that the Bible has ERRORS.) This is a LIE. Not the Truth.

The Validity of Jesus' Testimony
John 8:12
12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The Children of the Devil
John 8:42-47
42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

The Shepherd and His Flock
John 10:1-6
1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

Verses 14-20
14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

19At these words the Jews were again divided. 20Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

There you go - the hole low down. Now you've heard of the NEW
REALITY that exists just beyond your ability to perceive.

You WILL know: if and when you OBEY God and Take the Hand
of The Saviour - His Precious SON - the Lamb Slain for you
from the foundations of the world.

The bottom line: Receive Christ and have ETERNAL LIFE,
or argue with me and our other messengers of the GRACE
of God - all the way to Eternal Darkness.

WHY DO THAT? WHEN GOD HAS ALREADY MADE A WAY TO ESCAPE DEATH?

WHY?

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

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06-06-2010 09:30 PM  7 years agoPost 32
Dennis (passed)

Senior Heliman

Oregon

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The question I want to ask is how can tolerance ever be achieved if certain group's beliefs/faiths are totally intolerant of the human rights of others?
In today's world, that only applies to Radical Islam.

Yes, hundreds of years ago, that did apply to Christianity as well.

But, not today. To base a strong opinion against those that choose faith on events hundreds of years ago is a high level of intellectual dishonesty. Much like Radical Islam.

Atheism ignores the evolution of Christianity, in general, to promote peace. Thats not to say Christianity is perfect. Its certainly not. It has its failings as evidenced by the pedophilia in the Catholic church. Point being that Christianity has done, and will do, a lot of good things.

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06-07-2010 01:20 PM  7 years agoPost 33
synodontis

Key Veteran

United Kingdom

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Atheism ignores the evolution of Christianity
Atheism doesn't ignore the "evolution" of Christianity. Atheism doesn't care, period. There is no evolution of Christianity anymore there is an evolution of Islam or Hinduism or Judaism etc. You either believe in what they say and what the reference point that defines the religion says or you don't. You either believe that the God that the text talks about exists or you don't. There is no middle way, unless you construct something for yourself.

You speak of "intellectual dishonesty", but it's the religious texts that are intellectually dishonest, filled with lies.

Take the claim that has been gone over before: the earth was made in 7 days and 7 nights. After centuries of progress we know - not have an opinion on, nor need to debate - that this is patently false. In response, the Christians reinterpret it to mean very long periods of day and night, but that was shown to be false also. Now we can continue this game ad infinitum etc . . . but the truth is (considering all the scientific work done over the centuries) that this claim is false - and therefore a blantant lie. No discussion, no debate however you want to dress it up.

You want to believe in lies written in a book because it's your faith - that's fine by me. Just don't claim intellectual honesty, don't claim judgment with your faith as justification. You are blatant liars the lot of you and you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

The rest of us are rational and want to accept scientific progress.
Point being that Christianity has done, and will do, a lot of good things.
One does not need faith to do good things. It is not a necessary condition.
like with any group, not all athiest/agnostics want to supress or want a ban on religon.
any guidance to person or group of people that has some sort of positive effect must be good for all concerned.
it may be dis-illsionment that will causes a person to have such extreme views towards one thing or another, and if christianity embraces monogamy and hetro-sexuality, then christianity has made an enemy of homo-sexuals.
I don't care to discuss the social and political aspects of religion - interesting though they are, they don't concern me. What concerns me and I am dumbfounded at, is how people of faith can accept blatant lies and hold them as truths. It totally beggars belief. It's an extreme form of egotism - probably the most supreme expression of all.

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06-07-2010 01:53 PM  7 years agoPost 34
Dennis (passed)

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Oregon

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I don't care to discuss the social and political aspects of religion - interesting though they are, they don't concern me. What concerns me and I am dumbfounded at, is how people of faith can accept blatant lies and hold them as truths. It totally beggars belief. It's an extreme form of egotism - probably the most supreme expression of all.
Spoken like a true atheist zealot.

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06-07-2010 06:24 PM  7 years agoPost 35
str8den

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NE U.K

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What concerns me and I am dumbfounded at, is how people of faith can accept blatant lies and hold them as truths. It totally beggars belief.
it does not suprise me at all that you are dumbfounded.
because i do not believe that religous people of any intelligence can possibly think that the world was created in seven of 'our' days.
or for that matter three findus fishfingers can feed a footie-stadium full of hungy mouths.
so even though for the most part the bible sounds like BS, there are hidden morals in there.
we do as a spicies try to differentiate ourselves from other mammals, and i suppose religion was used as one of those tools to supress our natural animalistic urges that our societies wouldn't tolerate - you'd have to agree that religous text was of sound enough reasoning for many of its edicts to be incorperated into many a countries law.
for example, 'thou shall not steal' is a common law.
stealing will give the theif an immediate material gain and a joyful feeling. it is of no joy to the victim though, but in the long term (without the need for phar/illegal drugs) it will be of harm to the villain.
as a form of guidance the bible is a pretty well intentioned piece of work. it has helped a lot of people in dire situations and has shown itself to have helped many an indiviual to overcome undesirable traits that they no longer deem acceptable.

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06-07-2010 06:40 PM  7 years agoPost 36
z11355

rrMaster

New England

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You know, all of you talk talk talk but the fact is that these people are more than happy to slit your throat and let you drown in your own blood or blow you up for their beliefs.

What are you gonna do? Drive around with a stupid 'CoExist' bumper sticker?

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06-07-2010 06:46 PM  7 years agoPost 37
str8den

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NE U.K

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^^^ personally if push came to shove, i'd do it to them first!

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06-07-2010 08:01 PM  7 years agoPost 38
synodontis

Key Veteran

United Kingdom

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z11355,

my point is progress is progress and facts are facts.

you can't talk about the "evolution" of something when it's a dead end and was proved to be wrong.

things become obsolete, they are forgotten etc. . . that is the nature of things.
Spoken like a true atheist zealot.
I not an atheist and I'm not a zealot. But I can't respect other people's faith if they still accept the things that we worked so hard as a species to dispell.
What are you gonna do? Drive around with a stupid 'CoExist' bumper sticker?
you are talking about the issue of violence and force, which is prelavent in the world and a general part of the human condition. The fact that there are people like that tells me that their capacity for open communication and impartial discussion are overtaken by their feelings and anger and rage at their percieved persecution/grudges. Because of this certain nations/countries become overtly aggressive because it's the only way to survive.

take the jews for example: they've had a really raw deal. From the religious text they were responsible for the killing of Christ - you can't really play that down for those of other faiths. And the undercurrent of aggression towards them because of this must be pretty hard to burden. Could you blame Israel in becoming a monster in defence of their interests because of this? If everyone agreed all this is nonsense then that burden will be lifted - and we probably might fight over other things.

The only good news is that it's only a small minority of any religious population that are fanatically inclined.

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06-07-2010 09:01 PM  7 years agoPost 39
Dennis (passed)

Senior Heliman

Oregon

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I not an atheist and I'm not a zealot. But I can't respect other people's faith if they still accept the things that we worked so hard as a species to dispell.
We?

There you go again with WE.

Who is the WE?
The only good news is that it's only a small minority of any religious population that are fanatically inclined.
If that is so, then why do you rant against all "religion", the "bible" & "faith" as though you are an atheist, then claim to NOT be an atheist? Why bother? Why even respond to it?

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06-08-2010 01:29 AM  7 years agoPost 40
debogus

Senior Heliman

Beauklahoma,peoples republic of mexifornia,USSA

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But I can't respect other people's faith if they still accept the things that we worked so hard as a species to dispell
Thats how I feel about liberals and their BS ideas.

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