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ProModeler Scorpion Power
Helicopter
e-
E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart
› Importance of mechanical setup
06-05-2010 02:45 AM  7 years agoPost 1
Heli_KV

Key Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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To be short - for a while I was fighting with slight tail hunting on Rave with fast good (I think) servo (Inolab 261) and Quark. Nothing helped and I had some tiny but annoying tail wag - it did not influence flight, but still left feeling of non-perfection.

Different gyro mounting, searching for vibs helped a bit but not completely. Changing bearings onto new ones gave a bit of improvement, but not that much.

Solution was - to replace tail pitch lever ball. Seemed ball was fine, but not that fine. I replaced ball and way better tail - rock solid.

Oh and I got new custom canopy for Rave - now I will definitely be better pilot.. Test flew it, now it is not new anymore

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06-05-2010 06:06 PM  7 years agoPost 2
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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No doubt this will come up time and time again. Sometimes its just bad equipment and no amount of setup efforts will help. I've been down that road and its too time consuming. But in many cases, there is something small that has been overlooked. I've also been down that road and it's humbling to think you've covered everything only to find out something was missed.

In your case, was the ball worn? As it there slop between the ball and the link?

Revolectrix Beta Team

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06-05-2010 06:30 PM  7 years agoPost 3
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Ball was worn and looks like it had some non visible chips on surface. Just a tiny bit of nonuniformity when I moved ball link. Looks like that was enough to screw tail also a bit.
In my case, I have a rule for tail assembly: When it is done to be smooth, wait a bit and do one more attempt to make it even smoother. Usually it is possible. Then tail is nice. Top of the line equipment does not replace properly tuned mechanics.

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06-05-2010 07:13 PM  7 years agoPost 4
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Top of the line equipment does not replace properly tuned mechanics.
I know that some will proceed with the assumption that bottom of the line equipment properly tuned mechanics be almost as good as top of the line machanics.

My own experience is that this is an axiom that can really lead to lots of bench time and lost stick time. I have many stories I could relate. But the one that sticks in my craw the most was the tail issues I had with the HBK2. I kept hearing setup! setup! setup! Countless hours spent trying this, testing that, setting and re-setting up the gyro could have been better spent learning to fly. It turned that my econo tail servo was at fault all along.

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06-07-2010 06:42 AM  7 years agoPost 5
BOB WHO?

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Downey, Ca.

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Amen Gregor
There are limitations to some equipment that cannot be 'tuned' so that this stuff becomes good equipment. Once you've experienced the top-of-the-line products, how can you go back to the cheap stuff that never worked anyway? We drank the kool aid and went along with the program for a year or so then just about everyone woke up. There are guys who will look you in the face even now and tell you "this is good stuff, you just have to tweak it a little more..."

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06-08-2010 12:31 AM  7 years agoPost 6
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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the cheap stuff that never worked anyway?
That's your opinion . Flying the King 2 as much as I have with the stock radio with no adjustable parameters leaves only mechanical set-up as the key factor. Now, flying the King 3 with the the stock radio once again only leaves a good mechanical set-up for flying the lil pig.

Yes, we all know the Esky line--- cp2 and 3, Belt CP. King 1,2,3 and 4 are NOT the top of the line competition heli's but for me they have been cheap Fun and the best bang for the buck.

In the past year I have spent pennies keeping my King going while my flying buds (who shall remain nameless) have spent thousands on parts on their "high quality heli's" some due to pilot error, some due to mechanical failures, just because you spend more up front doesn't guarantee you won't spend more later, I have seen it first hand.

But to answer your question Heli-KV, I think mechanical set-up is VERY important !!

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06-08-2010 01:07 AM  7 years agoPost 7
BOB WHO?

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Downey, Ca.

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For me it was not about getting 'bang for the buck' but getting the best flying bird. That doesn't mean that I need (or have) a flybarless Logo for instance at $2000+ but you just cannot tweak a King or Belt to make it perform like name brand no matter what you do to it. My hat's off to someone who can fly inverted funnels, tic-tocs, fast backwards flight, and fly tricky transitions with stock Esky products. I don't have to tell you Doug that a precise Mechanical set-up is an absolute must for any and every heli anyway, but you're right that you can 'cheat' a little with a good radio. Hey Doug, I've got hundreds of dollars worth of HBK2 parts that I'm not using. Does that stuff interest you?

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06-08-2010 01:44 AM  7 years agoPost 8
DougsRC

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Mass.

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Does that stuff interest you?
It sure as hell does Bob ! I don't have much money but I will do what I can, let me know Dude.

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06-08-2010 02:34 AM  7 years agoPost 9
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Bang for the buck
That's coolaid flavor #1.
Its cheaper to crash
is coolaid flavor #2

Below are the crash costs from my last crash on with the HBK2. It looks the center hub is bent as well so add another $40 to that total. Where's the savings?

4 x #HBK63-ZZ KIT MR63-ZZC (blade grip bearings) $11.95
1 x MR105N-ZZC/W3 PS2 (main bearing) $2.75
1 x 3A-UBEC $11.99
4 x ABEC-3 Flange Bearings (2x5x2.5F) MF52ZZ (MF52ZZ) $5.64
1 x Esky Canopy (Red) - King V3 (EK1-0453R) $8.95
1 x Esky Skid Bar Set - King V3 (EK1-0439) $3.35
1 x Xtreme ESK012 motor mount (ESK012-E) $11.90
1 x Xtreme Spare linkage set(for ESK011) (ESK011-P) $4.00
1 x Main Gear w/One-Way Bearing - Blade 400 (EFLH1452) $8.99
1 x JR Offset Arms/Horns w/Screws (2) (JRPA210) $1.75
Shipping $10.95
Sub Total $82.22

Items From stock
Main shaft $4.00
Spindle $1.83
Battery (Zippy 2200mah) $20.00
Blades (Align wood blades) $14.00
Pinion (Rhino) $1.25
Flybar $2.00

Total $125.30

Revolectrix Beta Team

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06-08-2010 02:57 AM  7 years agoPost 10
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Looks like you dart-lawned HBK, Greg, with this substantial damage. Sorry for this. Looks like your electric mainly gone as well. Fortunately your CC ESC survived.

I would not say, that flying well equipped HBK is cheaper than other helis. It is expensive. Probably in stock form it is cheaper, but only Doug can do this. I mean flying it stock.

But still let's count a bit:
- HBK best (I think) tail assembly: $60 (really it is cheaper) vs $100 (min) tail assembly for other 450s.
- Head (mine is at max $100), vs $130 for others.
- Blades (I have CF for $16 stock ones (I was lucky to get ones)) vs. $30-50 for others. I cannot buy cosflaw ones, they are only for US people. (I still managed to get).
- Electronics, batteries are the same.
- Bearings - the same.
- HBK best frame - $70. Is it possible to get frame only for 450s? I managed to get complete frame with huge discount for $150 for G5, including everything (tail, head, all) but that was lucky exception.

It is still not cheap, but cheaper.

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06-08-2010 03:00 AM  7 years agoPost 11
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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Greg, why are you torturing yourself ? Cease and deceast flying the King 2 or 3 as soon as possible. Fly your Trex pro and be happy bro ! Could it get any simpler ? My personal experience is this thing is cheap to fly. I'm sorry it is not the case for everyone.

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06-08-2010 03:22 AM  7 years agoPost 12
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Doug, you know, it is hard to stop flying tuned HBK. Looks like I cannot. Like my wife says, that all best parts (blades, servos, gyros, etc)go to other helis and at the end you fly HBK most. Well, yesterday, when it was rain, I flew 4G6 in closed quarters (inside).

Btw, I still do not understand, why people who can fly still buy MSR for indoors. I do not have MSR, but since 4G6, I never flew upgraded and agile 4#3. I think I will sell it. 4G6 with much of practice even flies 3D in a room and crashes are not that expensive. (blades $5, main shaft and feathering and tail gear - another $5-6 roughly). and you do not have to crash at all - it is not obligatory).

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06-08-2010 04:25 AM  7 years agoPost 13
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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The crash was from last summer, its all fixed except for the suspect hub.

Doug, the torture ended on 12/13/2009. That was the last flight of the HBK2 and it was not a good one. Vibes so bad the gyro was nuts. Its been on the shelf ever since. I have not given up on it. I do plan to fix the vibe and get it in the air again. If I could get it to a place where it could go more than 10-20 flights without service, I'd put it back in rotation. I think I'm close. But then, that's what all the losers in Vegas say.

Right now I have 3 other helis to keep air worthy. Combined its less work to keep 3 running than it would take to keep the HBK2 in the air. The only reason its that much work are the upgrades and mods I've been doing to the "good three".

Revolectrix Beta Team

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06-08-2010 06:20 AM  7 years agoPost 14
BOB WHO?

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Downey, Ca.

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Greg you and I are rare on this forum; we will actually speak the words and say "this cheap stuff just doesn't work". I think most of the other guys are afraid to say it, but don't tell me that they still believe that you can tweak this crap into shape. I hear you brother, you're preachin' to the choir!

Dougie I don't want your money I want to find a home for this junk, I mean these Genuine Esky parts. And you, my friend, are the guy who will appreciate it more than anybody. It will be my pleasure to get this stuff out of my sight, I mean send you a box FULL of HBK2 parts. Hell I'll even send you my King2 and a carbon fiber (if you want to call it carbon fiber) frame set that has a crack in it (I know you can fix it). I even have many new sets of blades you can have and at least one brand new motor. You can probably build several helis with this useless pile of horse manure, I mean all these new parts. Could you do me one favor Doug when you build another one of these pigs, I mean helis, with this stuff? Take a video of this crap flying and let me know when you post it, you're the only guy that can make this stuff work. PM me your address, I can't find it from before.

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06-08-2010 11:31 AM  7 years agoPost 15
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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Could you do me one favor Doug when you build another one of these pigs, I mean helis, with this stuff? Take a video of this crap flying and let me know when you post it,
It would be my pleasure Bob. We should name the beast something "Crapinstein" or "CrapinKing" or "The thing that shouldn't fly" or "KingCrap" but seriously Bob, Thanks, you are very generous indeed. PM sent.

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06-08-2010 11:43 AM  7 years agoPost 16
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Looks to me like the end of era of HBKs...

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06-10-2010 04:53 AM  7 years agoPost 17
BOB WHO?

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Downey, Ca.

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How about "Pile-o-Crap-King" " Doug?

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06-10-2010 12:44 PM  7 years agoPost 18
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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How about "Pile-o-Crap-King" " Doug?
Not Bad or Craptastic King or Capt'n Krunch

Sorry Heli-Kv, this thread went a little off-topic

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06-10-2010 07:14 PM  7 years agoPost 19
BOB WHO?

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Downey, Ca.

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Or 'King-o-Crap'?

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06-10-2010 11:52 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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It should be pretty clear where I stand with the HBK2. However, I had many firsts with it and it let me start hovering well before my budget had room for better heli. Although meant in humor, I am reluntant to join in on the HBK2 nicknaming. The HBK2 has its place andit served me well. I just hung on to long.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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ProModeler Scorpion Power
Helicopter
e-
E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart
› Importance of mechanical setup
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