RunRyder RC
 5  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 2185 views
HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Phasing on four blade LH rotation VARIO gasser
06-03-2010 01:30 PM  7 years agoPost 1
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am currently rebuilding a used VARIO scale gasser I purchased. This helicopter will have a Mikado VBar installed to take care of stability (hopefully make it fly a bit easier).
Anybody flying a 4 blade gasser with a Vbar I would love to hear their opinion of this combination.
My question is regarding the phasing of the swash plate that is necessary for these machines. The VBar software allows for electronic rotation (phasing) of the swash plate.
Which direction must I rotate this in and approximately how many degrees?
How does one determain the correct phasing for a multiblade head?I realize that trial and error will produce the optimum amount of phasing but I am hoping for a starting point so as to avoid unpleasant suprises in the beginning stages.

I have a Benzin trainer as well would it be worth the effort to modify that to four blade head w/VBar to experiment, or will the VBar give me a safe result on the EC 135 and BO 105 that I have?
Anybody who would like to share their experiences and knowledge their input is greatly appreciated.

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2010 02:37 PM  7 years agoPost 2
Chuckie

rrKey Veteran

Crofton Maryland

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

At our club I'm helping a fellow member setup vbars in his scale machines. He has vario mechanics for 3, 4 and 5 blade machines. I have some pics of the Hughes 500 in my gallery. I have other pics to post of his other EC's including a huge one with a turbine, EC-120 and EC-145.

The 5 bladed Hughes was almost impossible to fly in winds above 5mph. After installing the vbar I got a chance to test fly her and with 10mph winds it was very easy to control. I did some fast eye level flybys almost hands free.

Two weeks a go we installed a vbar into his EC-145 with 4 blades. The motor was new so the tail kicked a little and the motor would slow down after hovering for a period of time. Once the motor has a chance to break in we'll do a little more tuning on the vbar. With the few minutes of hovering I did get in the heli was very stable with the vbar. I would never fly a multibladed head without some form of flight assist.

Mikado recommends to set the phasing by moving a blade so it's over the boom and then change the phase so that there is no movement when giving elevator (or aileron) on the tx (I forget which is correct). The direction of the rotation of blades and whether the grips are leading or trailing edge is important but the test above verifies the correct phasing has been set.

Watch the #14 Video for how to set up the swash phasing.

http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/141

14 Swashplate Rotation Swashplate rotations - Only for users of universal presets

Regards

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2010 03:15 PM  7 years agoPost 3
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thank you for your very comprehensive response Charles.
I am especially happy to hear that the VBar makes these big multi blade helicopters more manageable.
I have purchased four of them two are currently giving great service in my Align 700 and 600 3D helicopters. The other two are intended for the two large scale Vario’s (both four blade gasser scale)

Did you use the electronic phasing capability of the VBar or did you satisfy this mechanically?

Mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2010 04:37 PM  7 years agoPost 4
Chuckie

rrKey Veteran

Crofton Maryland

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Did you use the electronic phasing capability of the VBar or did you satisfy this mechanically?
Hi Mike, It was different for each heli. It depends on the head design.

Here is what I remember for the EC-145. The 4 bladed head for the EC-145 used leading edge control. The heli used 3 servo CCPM. The swash driver was set the keep the rods from the swash to the grips parallel to the main shaft. This gave us some of the angle for mechanical phase. We needed another 50 degrees of electronic phase. The blade rotation is counterclockwise so we rotated the phase on the vbar software. Channel 3 started at 30 degrees and after adjusting the phase by watching the blade over the boom 79 was the final angle. Each increment or rotation is 5 degrees but two of the three servo numbers were off after 10 increments. The amount of blade movement of the one over the boom was slight but not zero. I may adjust the three servo angles manually to get the phase spot on but it was good enough for the time being and don't know how much better it will be adjusting the phase 1 or 2 more degrees.

Regards

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-04-2010 07:45 AM  7 years agoPost 5
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have used 4 servo CCPM so I can see that this setup is going to be very interesting. Combine that to the fact that the fenesrton tail fan is a bit “iffy” and you have the ingredients for a headache.
Thank you again for taking the time to share your experience with me.
I am especially happy to verify through your experience that the VBars will help me with the task.
I enjoyed browsing through your albums.

Mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-14-2010 10:09 PM  7 years agoPost 6
Chuckie

rrKey Veteran

Crofton Maryland

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Check out my gallery, I just loaded up some new pics of the EC-120 and 134.

Please stand by for faster service!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2010 12:39 AM  7 years agoPost 7
Dr.Tim

rrElite Veteran

Mojave Desert

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My Super Puma that I won the U.S.Nationals with in 2005 flew perfect with 45 degrees to the right (Into the rotation)mind you I did not use any stabilation .. I used the Helitronix Mixer that just allows the use of gyros (I had none) and the Phasing. The Model flew very Nice and smooth.

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Approach Engineering

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2010 01:21 PM  7 years agoPost 8
Notar

rrKey Veteran

Taxachussetts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

For left hand rotation, you want the swashplate to tilt forward and to the right at around the 2 oclock position for forward elevator, and back and to the left to the 7 oclock position for back elevator. This gives you the correct position for phasing the head.
Be sure your pushrods are parallel to the main shaft.
Joe

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2010 09:22 PM  7 years agoPost 9
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Dr. Tim the Super Puma must be fantastic in flight. We have quite a few here in Greece that are used for search and rescue and I can’t resist dropping whatever I am doing and gazing whenever one flies overhead. Must be a handful to fly without electronic stabilization.

Mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2010 09:27 PM  7 years agoPost 10
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Gentlemen I thank you very much for your valuable input.

Joe I understand the need for the vertical pushrods. Were it not for the onboard VBar then I imagine that the swash plate would need to be physically rotated and therefore the pushrods would be at an angle. Is this statement correct?

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-16-2010 05:00 AM  7 years agoPost 11
Dr.Tim

rrElite Veteran

Mojave Desert

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is the flight at the 2006 Nationals .. A bit breezy but nice ...
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/...-ScaleDrTim.wmv

That's Joe calling for me ....

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Approach Engineering

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-16-2010 01:12 PM  7 years agoPost 12
Notar

rrKey Veteran

Taxachussetts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes, the inner ring of the swash would have to be rotated so there would be a45 degree angle on the pushrods.
Joe

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-18-2010 09:01 AM  7 years agoPost 13
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Joe, thank you.

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-18-2010 12:59 PM  7 years agoPost 14
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My old gas powered B117 from Robbe flew very well , no mixing of any kind , four blade head , always a pleasure to fly. But in the old days there were no gyro's , so add what ever you feel , it makes a good helli fly better and easier.
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-18-2010 01:29 PM  7 years agoPost 15
mikmerl

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hello Dave,
Nice to hear from you.
I was born in South Africa (Durban), but I have been living in crazy Athens, Greece for the last 20 years.
When you say your four blade B117 flew without any mixing do you mean no phasing of the swash plate at all?
Your four pushrods going up to the blade grips were completely parallel to the main shaft?
Was there no tendency to roll or dip during forward flight?

Mike

Vario Bell 47g II, Vario EC135, Vario BO 105 big, Vario Benzin trainer, Logo 600SE, Logo 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 2185 views
HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Phasing on four blade LH rotation VARIO gasser
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 5  Topic Subscribe

Friday, December 15 - 11:53 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online