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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Three Cheers for Israel!!
06-02-2010 07:19 PM  7 years agoPost 21
j5coat

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Hey spitfire, you dont seem to care about the rockets the fire into isreal or about the suicide bombers that do not care who they kill, just as long as its alot. I say good for isreal and it would have been better to sink them! If cuba announced it wasnt going to stop for our coast guard, what do you think we would do? I dont blame them at all, EVERYONE is against isreal, the usa is their only friend and not so much with this president.

Trex 700, Trex 600n

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06-02-2010 10:02 PM  7 years agoPost 22
ScottV

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Is there any more video of the ship giving fair warning, I would like to hear what was said after they replied "negative negative we are going to gaza".

So long and thanks for all the fish!
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

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06-02-2010 10:28 PM  7 years agoPost 23
Dennis (RIP)

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I would agree that Israel was probably right in protecting their blockade.

But, their boarding teams might need a bit of training:

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06-02-2010 10:34 PM  7 years agoPost 24
z11355

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http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/as-rea...rative/?print=1

As Reality Unfolds About Flotilla, World Media Continues with Fictional Narrative
Posted By Allison Kaplan Sommer On June 2, 2010 @ 10:33 am In Column 2, Uncategorized | 22 Comments

The emerging reality on the ground in Israel regarding the nature of the Gaza flotilla, and the story being told around the world, are so utterly different that they could be taking place on two separate planets. As the days pass in Israel and more information is uncovered, the popular international narrative of brutal Israeli soldiers casually slaughtering tens of innocent peace activists bearing humanitarian aid drifts further and further from reality.

Details unfolded Wednesday regarding the background of those who attacked the commando squad, which was stunned by the violent ferocity of the presumed “humanitarians” aboard the Mavi Marmara. The most revealing source of information has been, interestingly, the Turkish media, which reported that the casualties of the clash had openly aspired to martyrdom. Being killed by an Israeli soldier was apparently the goal of the exercise. According to Ynet [1]:

Media reports in Ankara on Wednesday revealed that three out of the four Turkish citizens that were killed during the raid declared their wishes to become shahids (martyrs). Another Dutch report claimed a Dutch activist who was arrested by the IDF is suspected of being a senior Hamas operative.

The new information disturbs the Israeli public — not because it sees its military as having behaved immorally, but because it seems that its political and military leadership were unforgivably duped and manipulated. They played directly into the hands of their enemies, whose humanitarian mission turned out to be a true Trojan Horse.

To be clear, the story of the Mavi Marmara is not the story of the entire flotilla. From international reports, one would think the flotilla was comprised of that single ship. But there were six.

The five other ships in the “Freedom Flotilla” were boarded and escorted to Ashdod, the passengers were disembarked, and the humanitarian aid was transferred over the border into Gaza. This was apparently not newsworthy.

As we know, the Mavi Marmara was another story altogether. Revealed in cabinet briefings and reported in Israel Today on Wednesday: the large boat contained between 50-100 passengers who had apparently been recruited and put on the boat by the IHH organization — which financed and organized [2] the flotilla — with orders to violently attack the IDF soldiers expected to board.

“They came ready for battle. They came to kill and planned violence against the soldiers ahead of time” a military official told the cabinet.

These men were organized and well-trained, with a clear chain of command — there were leaders, deputies, and footsoldiers, divided up into specific groups, located in pre-designated locations on the top deck of the boat waiting for the soldiers to board.

They were fully equipped for battle. A search of the ship found weaponry — knives, axes, metal poles — as well as protective gear, bulletproof vests, masks, and night vision goggles. When they were apprehended, none of them carried any form of identification, and most of them had thousands of dollars in their pockets.

The story of the battle on board the boat became clearer as the soldiers were debriefed by the IDF and spoke to the media from their hospital beds — without being identified by name — in Israel Today.

According to plan, the soldiers had lowered themselves down by two ropes from a helicopter. The first two soldiers were immediately attacked and their pistols stolen before they could fire. The pistols were later recovered in the hands of two of the dead casualties of the fight, with their magazines empty.

Soon the “activists” tied one of the ropes to a flagpole on the ship. Fearing that the tethering of the helicopter to the ship would cause the helicopter to crash, one of the soldiers cut the rope. This slowed the flow of reinforcements onto the boat, as the following soldiers could only come down one-by-one on a single rope. In addition to the battering with knives and axes, stun grenades [3] and a Molotov cocktail were thrown.

The soldiers told of the experience of standing surrounded by tens of attackers with knives and axes. According to Sergeant “A”:

Hundreds of angry people were laying in wait for us with weapons. They were attacking and hitting us with axes and knives and pipes. I saw one of my soldiers surrounded by tens of people hitting him non-stop. While we were prepared for violent resistance, we had not anticipated it on this scale. The clear goal of the activists on the ship was to kill us. Most of them were coming at us with knives and axes in their hands.

Sergeant “R” recounted:

Tens of them surrounded us with knives and axes. One of them approached me with his knife drawn, and after I understood that my life was in danger I drew my weapon and I fired once. To my surprise, at least 20 people dropped on me and threw me from the deck.

I stood up and felt a sharp pain in my stomach. I saw that a knife was stuck in my lower abdomen and I pulled it out. I then managed to get myself to one of the lower decks of the boat, where there were already a group of solders who were in control of that part of the ship and the passengers.

The soldiers interviewed by the newspaper said they were upset by the criticism of the operation — less so by the international attacks than the domestic critics:

It has been very hard for us to listen to the criticism being thrown for the past few days. People are sitting in air-conditioned studios and act like they understand what went on. They think they invented the wheel. Anyone who said we could have behaved other than how we did is simply wrong.

According to Ynet, the violent combatants are believed to be Turkish, Yemenite, and possibly Indonesian, and are believed to have been recruited and paid for their efforts [2] by IHH — the organization that organized and funded the flotilla. Their interrogation has been made difficult by their refusal to identify themselves, but the media reports say there is reason to believe some have ties to global jihad groups like al-Qaeda.

One senior official admitted that the IDF soldiers who embarked on their mission had possessed too little information [4] on what awaited them, saying that “everything should be done in order to gather all the factual data and prove that the humanitarian sail had a semi-military body with a completely different goal.”

Another told Fox News [5] that the IDF operation had “bad equipment, bad tactics, and bad intelligence.”

One certainly could add to the list “bad public relations.” Perhaps Israel’s biggest failure has been to tell its side of the story properly to the world.

As the story of the assault on the soldiers comes into sharper focus, so do the missed opportunities of the early morning hours in Europe and then the U.S. immediately following the operation — the time when the world was seeing only the bloody pictures circulated by the flotilla.

For those key hours, all Israel was offering to the international media were verbal explanations and justifications. It offered no video evidence of its account, which it possessed. Why in the world, angrily asks David Horovitz of the Jerusalem Post, did it wait so long to release this crucial footage? Whoever was responsible for “sitting on” the footage of soldiers being attacked and beaten should lose his job [6], he declared:

Even allowing generous time for processing and editing the material, the footage could have been flashing across TV screens worldwide by our breakfast time, before news of the entire incident was even beginning to permeate. Would it have completely transformed the way the incident was reported and understood? No. Would it have greatly helped Israel’s case? Unquestionably.

Horovitz offered a challenge to the country’s prime minister: it is Netanyahu’s responsibility, he says, to apply the lesson of the the media failure of the Gaza flotilla and make necessary changes that could save Israel from such blunders in the future:

Will it spark the long overdue strategic overhaul of Israel’s conduct on the “second battlefield?” Will it finally prompt the prime minister to establish a single, effective, properly resourced hierarchy to coordinate the way Israel presents and explains its challenges in the media, legal, and diplomatic forums? As a former ambassador to the UN and a highly polished media performer, he of all people should understand what’s at stake. Surprise us, Mr. Netanyahu.

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06-02-2010 10:47 PM  7 years agoPost 25
Kamikaze Pilot

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*nevermind

A.T. Quad-Rave 450-Trex 550

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06-02-2010 10:49 PM  7 years agoPost 26
synodontis

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z11355,

I'm just disgusted that the majority of people could have jumped to conclusions that quick without bothering to question some facts.

Utterly disgusted.

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06-03-2010 02:44 AM  7 years agoPost 27
Spitfire1

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^ Your reading facts that have been diseminated directly from the Isreali heirachy which are basically quotes from the Isreali military personel involved, Im not suggesting that those facts are either true or false, but to suggest those facts are completely unbiased is a stretch to say the least.

It only to takes a bit of research to realise that Allison Kaplan Sommer who wrote the article, is infact an Isreali journalist who spent 12 years writing for the Jeruselem Post and lives in Tel Aviv, you only need do a quik google search and you will soon realise that Allison Kaplan Sommer has infact spent much of, if not her entire carreer defending the policies and actions of the Isreali government, lets just say she is about as heavily biased to one side of the arguement than anyone possibly can be.

Just be careful about reading a page of quoted facts and simply accepting it to be the gospel truth.

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06-03-2010 04:30 AM  7 years agoPost 28
drdot

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fwiw..

I don't understand the concept of "Defending" actions related to a given nations' security...Israel can't be held to a different standard than ANY other country regarding that issue...Same hysterical argument used by those who decry the AZ immigration law as "racist"...
Let's imagine this scene shifted to a locaton in China...What do you imagine the reaction of the Chinese would be?
If Israel is that horrible an entity, let'd dig up and flog Harry Truman...He is responsible for the existence of the nation...(And, by all accounts, an anti-Semite.)

Just another example of the normative thinking of the left...

BC

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06-03-2010 04:34 AM  7 years agoPost 29
husky385

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Eugene

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That video in the first post explains it all. This is exactly what those people wanted to happen. As far as I'm concerned they got what they deserved. It's to bad the Israelis didn't sink the ship with all of them on board.
Kevin

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06-03-2010 04:42 AM  7 years agoPost 30
drdot

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fwiw...
....

Sink the ship....
Gee ..I didn't think of that...Let's move the play to North Korea!!!

BC

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06-03-2010 04:59 AM  7 years agoPost 31
husky385

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Yea sinking it is a bit over the top. Ok get control take it to port unload humanitarian supplies ( if any )deliver them to Gaza. then take the ship out to sea then sink it with all terrorist on board. Is that better.
Kevin

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06-03-2010 05:02 AM  7 years agoPost 32
Dennis (RIP)

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All they have to do is blow out the rudder on any ship that attempts to run that blockade.

Once that is done, no ship is going anywhere except being towed to drydock for repairs.

No body gets shot.
No body gets hurt.
No body gets arrested.
The Terrorists have had a nice little boat ride with their pals.
The drydock owners are happy for the extra business.
The ship owners get punished with higher insurance rates.
The UN has nothing to blow out of proportion.
Easy.

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06-03-2010 05:04 AM  7 years agoPost 33
drdot

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fwiw..

Hamas should be grateful for the Israelis' patience...One wonders what they might do when they tire of kabuki...

BC

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06-03-2010 05:24 AM  7 years agoPost 34
dumhuve

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That's actually a pretty good idea dennis, I joke around but i don't
really like hurting people personly. You know who cares the least of anybody? Hamas.

Sharing means: you get less.

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06-03-2010 05:25 AM  7 years agoPost 35
Dennis (RIP)

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That's actually a pretty good idea dennis, I joke around but i don't
really like hurting people personly. You know who cares the least of anybody? Hamas.
They are also paying the highest price.

That can't last forever. Well, lets hope it doesn't.

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06-03-2010 05:45 AM  7 years agoPost 36
Spitfire1

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I dont pretend to know anything about military strategy, but maybe some harsh words through a loud hailer followed up with some warning shots over the bow, then if that fails some of the methods above, blowing the rudder out seems like a good idea.

Seems obvious to me that dropping soldiers into an angry mob is not going to end well for either parties, I think thats blatently obvious for all to see.

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06-03-2010 06:21 AM  7 years agoPost 37
husky385

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The ball was in the court of the people on the ship. They new that Israel wouldn't let them pass. They could have let them board peacefully and this would have ended better. I blame the instigators of this. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, diplomacy isn't solving anything especially when you are dealing with people that have no intention of doing things peacefully and the people on that particular ship had no peaceful intentions. I don't see Israel doing anything on purpose with malice to jeopardize their existence.
Kevin

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06-03-2010 10:49 AM  7 years agoPost 38
synodontis

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Im not suggesting that those facts are either true or false
you didn't get my point did you?

I was merely stating how quick it was for people to jump to conclusions.

I don't like what Israel did, but to make out that they would purposefully set out to murder in the eyes of the world media is a bit far fetched. I am absolutely certain that they have done some pretty atrocious things - but so has the other side.

But at the end of the day you got to ask yourself to what lengths are people/countries/nations allowed to defend their own territories and interests.

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06-04-2010 02:04 AM  7 years agoPost 39
classic

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I wonder where the world outcry was when Isreal vilently attacked an American ship for several hours wounding 171 and murdering 34 Americans?

Amazing how times have changed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

And I blame both goverments for this one! Not just Isreal.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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06-04-2010 02:12 AM  7 years agoPost 40
Dennis (RIP)

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I wonder where the world outcry was when Isreal vilently attacked an American ship for several hours wounding 171 and murdering 34 Americans?

Amazing how times have changed.
That was 43 years ago.

What does that have to do with today's blockade by Israel to defend itself?

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