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HelicopterBeginners Corner › How do you setup, to bail-out, of an Auto
06-01-2010 02:47 PM  7 years agoPost 1
T-Rex-Flyer

rrElite Veteran

Panama City, Fl

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I would like to be doing Auto's by mid-summer. I do baby auto now but don't have the nerve to try from altitude. How do you set up to bail-out if you're nerves fail before you reach the ground.

Flying a Raptor 50SE
Futaba 10c
OS 56.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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06-01-2010 03:57 PM  7 years agoPost 2
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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If you're running a nitro, there isn't much to it. Just flick the switch back on, and away you go. Just make sure that your motor is in tune, and isn't likely to flame out when you bring it to idle, and you should be good. Bailing out in idle up mode is fine too.

The other thing to consider on a nitro is if you let the head speed drop too much, you might get some unwanted yaw when you power back on. It really needs to drop to almost nothing to see that happen though. When it does your heli might spin a couple times on it's own though due to lack of tail rotor authority to counter the sudden torque.

If you're running electric, many ESCs have an adjustable soft start or an auto-bailout specific setting (I know CC ESCs have that). Just make sure that it doesn't take 5 seconds for the power to come back on after you've hit hold or you may not have time to bail out.

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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06-01-2010 05:45 PM  7 years agoPost 3
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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That's the problem with trying to bail out on an auto with a Kontronik ESC. The solution is to set your throttle hold to about 20%. This can be kind of dangerous if you instinctively hit throttle hold while the heli is on the ground.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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06-01-2010 07:37 PM  7 years agoPost 4
TachyonDriver

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Chipping, Lancs, UK

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bailing out and having the heli (nitro) go straight from throttle hold to idle up is kind of rough on the clutch and the rest of the mechanics IMHO, unless you've built in a delay for the throttle to reach it's new position (Futaba 9C super has an assingnable delay function, so I hope the 10 would be similar), for example it may take .5 of a second on 50% delay for the throttle servo to rotate from idle.

If I was practicing autos then I'd flick into normal mode first FWIW.

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!

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06-03-2010 02:29 AM  7 years agoPost 5
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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very good question. bail outs are a very important part of autos. in practicing,i have seem many autos end up with damage because the pilot didnt bailout when he could have. when i teach autos, i teach bailing out as well. many times, you will know you are in the process of a "bad" auto that can be bailed out of and redone. most pilots either panic or try to correct one thats too far gone. getting that finger to wake up and turn throttle hold off does take practice as well. like mentioned, when i hit hold, i also go to normal mode so if i have to bail out, i wont have all this sudden rpm spinning the heli around and pyutting extra wear on the clutch liner when it comes to life. i also dont come up on the collective to fly out of it until i have deactivated throttle hold.
now the way i teach autos is, i have the idle set a little higher than needed, you know just enough to give you what feels like lots of inertia but not enough to make the heli climb. as yo get used to the world of descent, flare level and cusion, yo uturn down the ide til you start depending more on the actual inertia of the blades and less of the engines help. you know you are there when you can purposely shut the engine down and land safely.
also like mentioned before,. you need to make sure your engine idles reliably and doesnt quit with sudden addition of power after idling for a few mins. no need for the engine to force you into a real auto

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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06-03-2010 05:09 AM  7 years agoPost 6
GMPCOBRA

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oregon

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good advice doc. i have had my fair share of botched autos and have managed to pull out of most but the last time i wasnt so luckey and scrued it into the turf but it was a learning exp.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS NOT SET UP FOR THAT, OH THATS WHAT YOU MEAN

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06-03-2010 02:34 PM  7 years agoPost 7
ZZ3Astro

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Panama City, Fl

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I'm not sure if the 10C has a delay feature but I programmed a slight delay on the throttle on my 8FGH. I'm sure you saw my two bailed out auto attempts Monday... I have to say that delay makes for a smooooth bailout!

Also it doesn't hurt to find some heavy blades for learning full autos.

And one more thing.. try to do it when you know there won't be anyone else in the air or running engines. It really helps to hear what the blades are doing.

Aeolus 50 3D CF - 8FGH/R6008HS - GY520/BLS251 - BLS451 x 3 - Multigov - S3155 - YS56

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06-03-2010 02:47 PM  7 years agoPost 8
T-Rex-Flyer

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Panama City, Fl

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Steve, I missed your auto I guess I was otherwise occupied. Tim mention you where doing them, which got me thinking about starting.
Yes the 10c has a delay setting.

Next question, when is it too late to bail-out and it's best to just continue, and hope for the best?

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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06-03-2010 02:57 PM  7 years agoPost 9
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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hard to say when "too late" is to bail out, better to abort at first sign the auto isnt the way you plan it.
practice practice practice!!
with plenty of practice you get better and more comfortable with autos. you will then find that you are able to correct an auto without having to bail out but know when to make the right decision and bail out. sometimes things are just too botched up to try to correct.
autos are my favorite and being a scaler doesnt stop me sometimes
heres a vid of my 30 size longranger with hirobo shuttle mechanics.
enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V2y9msJa24

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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06-08-2010 03:11 AM  7 years agoPost 10
bigbadflyer

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Middle Earth New Zealand

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I learnt by going up high high high and instead of flicking the hold switch I hit the throttle cut switch

I had no choice but learn really fast!!
I had practiced if the flight sim for months so was pretty comfortable doing it on the computer. Apart from the hang time at the end it was very similar.

Just make sure its into the wind and as already spoken about get ready to bail out. My first two tip overs were cause by not being used to flicking the switch back and bailing out. Its a hard thing to do so practice this on the sim first if you are using one.

Also make sure you have a large flat landing area so as if you do come in a bit fast or not quite where you thought you were you dont run out of room.

Cheye

New Zealand Helicopter Sheep Hearding Champion :-)

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06-08-2010 01:28 PM  7 years agoPost 11
TachyonDriver

rrKey Veteran

Chipping, Lancs, UK

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Excellent autos CD!! Where you trying to get some slope lift from the roof of the building??

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!

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06-08-2010 01:39 PM  7 years agoPost 12
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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I would suggest no bailout plan for high altitude auto when your heli is pretty close to the ground for the touch down. Most of the time, I realize it will just make the situation worse. Your tail may spin to over correct when you resume the power in midair, and you may lose orientation due to that. You may end up crashing in full power as opposed to no power, that makes the situation worse. If something goes wrong when your heli is close to the ground, there is really nothing you can do. Let it be, take the lesson learnt, fix the heli up and do it again next time.

If you are able to do the baby auto, high altitude is the same except you just need a little bit more of forward flight (but not too much as it will kill the headspeed) to keep the blades headspeed.

Rudy

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06-08-2010 08:46 PM  7 years agoPost 13
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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you just need a little bit more of forward flight (but not too much as it will kill the headspeed)
Can you explain how going too fast forward kills the headspeed? First time I've ever heard that. Nor have I experienced it. In theory you're trading any and all forward speed you have for rotor speed when you flare...

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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06-08-2010 09:50 PM  7 years agoPost 14
S76 Mech

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Hatboro, Pa.

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Bailing out of Auto

I have an approach to bailing that I have been practicing which has been alot easier on my machine.

When I have to bail out...

1. I hit my FlightMode switch to Normal.
2. Then flick (off) the Throttle Hold to regain engine power.

I never liked how when I was in Idle-up and bailed, I would usually burn out a clutch or liner. Not to mention how hard it is on the engine and the rest of the drive-train and gyro/tail-servo going from Idle to full throttle under load. By flipping my FM switch back to Normal, when I turn-off TH, the motor comes back nice and easy. Stick position is usually around mid throttle (0 pitch) in an autorotation anyway. In Normal mode this is around 50% throttle. Its ALOT easier on the drivetrain when you go from 0 to 50%, instead of 0 - 100%.

It just takes some mental reprogramming to get it right. Anyways, this is whats been working for me lately.

Gaui Greatness X7, X5, NX4, X3

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06-09-2010 04:56 AM  7 years agoPost 15
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you just need a little bit more of forward flight (but not too much as it will kill the headspeed)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you explain how going too fast forward kills the headspeed? First time I've ever heard that. Nor have I experienced it. In theory you're trading any and all forward speed you have for rotor speed when you flare...
You get into forward flight by tilting the nose or tail slightly downward. If you are tilting it too much, you will kill the headspeed. Just listen to the whining sound of blades and the speed of descent and you will know how much tilting/forward speed you need.

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06-09-2010 04:58 AM  7 years agoPost 16
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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S76 Mech, your idea is good, but trust me you will not have time to do the bail out if the heli is too close to the ground.

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06-09-2010 12:16 PM  7 years agoPost 17
S76 Mech

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Hatboro, Pa.

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Maybe, but its just as easy as flipping out of throttle hold. But, instead of flipping one switch, you flip 2.

Besides, you should have plenty of descision hieght to bail out of an auto. If you have to bail out that low to the ground, your decreasing your chances of a successful bail-out.

If your that low, finish the auto.

just trying to help!

Gaui Greatness X7, X5, NX4, X3

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06-09-2010 12:19 PM  7 years agoPost 18
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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You get into forward flight by tilting the nose or tail slightly downward. If you are tilting it too much, you will kill the headspeed.
So it doesn't really have anything to do with forward speed so much as angle of attack. That makes more sense. Getting a good running start can do nothing but good though
Why would you want to bail out that close to the ground? If your that low, finish the auto.
Well, say you're at my field, and there's a 50' drop into a sand pit just on the other side of the runway. That seems like a good reason

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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06-09-2010 02:02 PM  7 years agoPost 19
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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thanks tach, a little "roof effect" before "ground effect" makes it a bit more exciting
s76 mech hit it on the head with the bail out. if you are in normal mode when you bail out, it is easier on the engine, clutch and your orientation (although knowing nose in helps that). i actually practice autos already in normal mode.
as for the bailout, i agree, you have a go or no go for it height. after you get close enough, bailing out is no longer an option unless like rotormonkey states, its a life or death situation. now i have always said, if you are confindent enough in your flying, you can bail out anywhere and at any altitude or attitude.
now lest get into some aerodynamics. i think the chap saying that too much forward speed kills your headspeed may be thinking backwards. Rotormonkey is correct. its not so much the fwd speed that kills it, its the nose down angle. the further down the nose is pointed, the less the angle the ralative wind is hitting the rotordisk to keep windmilling the blades thus causing the rpm to drop. this nose down atrtitude has an end result in a faster fwd speed of course but it isnt what caused loss of rotor rpm. on a windless day, you do end up with a faster approach to get that still air going thru the rotorsystem to keep the headspeed up. when you do the first deceleration flare, that kicks up the headspeed for the final level and cusion. on a windy day, it isnt quite as necessary.
as for the gentleman that uses "throttle cut" as opposed to "throttle hold", please explain to me why? not sure i understand. doesnt the cut feature kill the engine? the hold rolls it to an idle set by you. maybe i am thinking that like me, your final auto for the flight is done withthe engine actually dead and thus you use the cut. i pull my trim all the way down to kill the engine before going to "hold"
now guys, i am no expert at flying helis nor am i at aerodynamics, alli have to go on is 22yrs of flying and my experiences in that time.
if you practice and practice and practice, you will master whatever maneuver you are trying to learn.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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06-09-2010 02:28 PM  7 years agoPost 20
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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Rotormonkey is correct. its not so much the fwd speed that kills it, its the nose down angle. the further down the nose is pointed, the less the angle the ralative wind is hitting the rotordisk to keep...
Sorry for my confusion. This is what I actually mean. Thanks for the correction.

I usually bring the heli to the height that I barely see the skids and then hit throttle hold. It will just slowly descend with the blades windmilling all the way. It is a pretty cool sound.

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