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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Adjusting flybarless. I really need some advice!
06-01-2010 04:24 AM  7 years agoPost 1
litespeed600

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St. Charles, Missouri

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On my eRaptor 550 with a Rondo V2 I'm having a hard time getting the tail to hold. At first I thought it was the head speed but it's holding steady at 2100 solid rpms. On a heavy climb out the tail will kick some 25 to 35 degrees. I kept adding gain or so I thought till I was able to minimize the effect but couldn't get rid of it completely. Then I realized I didn't something dumb...imagine that! Anyway I was adjusting (don't ask why!) the travel adjust instead of my sub trim. I have a 9303 with the Xtreme link 2.4 module/receiver and for gyro gain you have to use sub trim.

So after I realize this I figure I know what I did wrong and why the tail wasn't holding. So I back the travel adjust back to what the Rondo calls out which is "up" 100% as viewed on the programmer for heading hold. I then added sub trim to this gain channel and the tail won't hold worth a crap again. I keep upping it and upping it. Still nothing. I also notice something similar to what another posted today about another flybarless unit. When I would do a climb out the first time the tail would kinda hold then when I brought it down it had a disconnected feel to the heli for a second or two. Kinda like loosing some of the control. Then as it started to drift I would hit the collective and the tail would blow out to the 25 to 35 degree again. Head speed was being held the whole time.

So I go back to a bench and hook up the programmer and go to channel monitoring and look at the tail gain channel.I think I forgot to mention that I'm using 2 different gain channels for the Rondo. one for the tail and the other for the cyclic. So while I'm monitoring the programmer I adjust the travel adjust and I am able to make the display go to the max of 200%. I put it back and go to the sub trim and again am able to adjust the gain to 200%. Hmmm!

So all that writing and what's my question.....What am I suppose to be adjusting? Sub trim or travel adjust? I'm also asking about the cyclic gain because I have been adjusting the travel adjust (again....don't ask. My head must have been in a dark place....) for the cyclic also. A couple other facts so you know in case it matters are, it has a Align 650 on the tail and it's smooth as silk and set at 1520us. No binding and stops set. It is in heading hold with the switch up and showing 100% and when the switch is down it goes into rate mode. 12 degrees +/- pitch and about 8 1/2 degrees cyclic.

Any ideas? I'm sure that all flybarless (just guessing!) have the same or similar set up issues so I'm hoping someone can explain or help with this problem. I'm totally loving the smooth flights, super unbelievable flip & roll rates and the extra flight time. It flips and rolls faster than my 450 pro at 3500 head speed......crazy.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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06-02-2010 12:49 AM  7 years agoPost 2
erict

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Ct

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try lowering your pitch a degree or two. sounds like your head is loading with max pitch manuvers which lowers head speed and TAIL SPEED thereby lowering your tail authority. Could also make it feel "disconnected"

eric

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06-02-2010 05:37 AM  7 years agoPost 3
litespeed600

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St. Charles, Missouri

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Eric,

I already lowered the pitch. I was at 13.5 degrees and now I'm at 12 degrees. I have my head speed on set-rpm at 2100. My CC ICE logger shows the head speed not dropping below 2000 on anything so I don't think that is the problem any more. I did think that before but checked it all out and it IS holding the head speed fairly well.

I may just try some larger tail blades (up to 92mm from 85mm) and see if that changes anything.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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06-02-2010 05:45 AM  7 years agoPost 4
erict

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Ct

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larger blades may help. I think the disk is getting loaded causing your problems.

goodluck

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06-02-2010 02:48 PM  7 years agoPost 5
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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My guess is mechanical gain. Try moving the ball on your tail servo arm out further from center. If it's too close in, you get good resolution, and great torque, but no speed. So when you punch out, or make big collective/torque changes all of a sudden it takes too long for the slider to get where it needs to be to counter. Eventually it makes it's way there, but by the time it does you tail has already blown out.

Also, for adjusting your gain, it's the sub trim you want to change. At least for gyros in general. I'm not familiar with your particular FBL system. Leave the endpoints at default values. Actually if you increase the endpoint without changing the subtrim, you're probably LOWERING the gain.

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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07-28-2010 01:57 PM  7 years agoPost 6
litespeed600

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St. Charles, Missouri

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I just noticed I never replied to this. It was the blades. When I had the Spartan DS760 on the machine the tail held fine with these KBDD 92mm tail blades but after the Rondo the tail just wouldn't hold at all. I had an extra set of Edge 95 carbon fiber tail blades I put on and instantly the tail held like crazy. Full 12.5 degree climb outs and pitch pumps and the tail doesn't even twitch. Aileron flips, tic tock and tail slides the tail stays in one spot. Makes me wonder if the tail is taxed harder when the head has less moving mass. It also makes me wonder how much better the tail could have been with the Spartan. I liked the KBDD tail blades because they were cheap and this is my 3D learning machine, daily breaker if you know what I mean. Cheap = Good if it works....

I love finding a solution to a problem. Just thought I'd share for future reference.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Adjusting flybarless. I really need some advice!
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