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HelicopterSynergy R/CSynergy N9 › N9 crash costs "too expensive?"
06-03-2010 04:51 PM  7 years agoPost 81
ch-47c

rrElite Veteran

san jose, ca

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Agreed.

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06-03-2010 05:28 PM  7 years agoPost 82
Kevin Dalrymple

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis

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I just said the Trex 700 is about 35% cheaper than the N9...
Paraih that is about right. And you are right about the teething problems. The 700 had main gear, pinon bearing block problems as well as the tail boom sliding out in flight.

Like you said this post is not about upgrades or which heli is better, it is about cost. I switched because of cost. If I knew Matt was going to lower the price on parts 6 months ago I would probably be still flying my N9.

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06-03-2010 06:07 PM  7 years agoPost 83
Carl Bonta

rrApprentice

Elgin, IL USA

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WOW!!!

I had to post in this thread, because I would like to set the record straight on a few points.

The N9 when released was the first sub 1K heli that came with carbon paddles and OK carbon tail blades and a glass canopy.

This model changed the industry and set the bar in 06'. The design WAS in 06' cutting edge, and some of its styling and upgrade parts have been used in most of TODAY'S helicopter designs.

It is hard to compare pricing of an N9 to a 700, an example is; align struts are the same for 600 and 700 they may have sold 250K sets as opposed to 10K sets of N9 struts, so the tooling cost amortized into the final price has a lot to do with it. If the N9 sold in the numbers that align does, they could lower the price as well.

With that said, the N9 needs to have its pricing adjusted by today’s standards, and I think Matt has already said that he is working this out with the new investor.

Tyler Lovell's comments are unfounded:
He was invited to meet with Tyler B, Jim Stark, and myself to look his model over, this meeting was set-up by Todd (talk about customer support)I wish I could get that kind of service when I spend 1K

Tyler was to have his helicopter gone thru and test flown by Jim and Tyler B, by the end of the day, Tyler L shows up WITHOUT yes WITHOUT a motor for his helicopter that he was to have worked on.....So we go to plan B. Give his helicopter a once over and find assy. issues.

Action taken:
Tyler B- Rebuilds whole tail section.
Carl B- Straightens clutch and machines any neccsary parts.
Jim S- Does a complete radio setup and control system alignment.

The day ends with me buying lunch and no test flight because there was no motor. Too bad because Tyler L had his new HYPERhub with custom laser engraving that he had to have (the only person on the planet we had to jump thru those hoops for).

Tyler Lovell was the only guy I have run across that's N9 was not put together according to the manual, this was confirmed 1 year later by Matt B at the SYN booth at ircha. Granted there were problems with the N9 that we help or fixed with upgrades over the years but all helicopters need to be evolved to keep up with current flying styles.

In his defense he did have a warped main gear and it was replaced by me at Todd's expense and all parts he or we felt were defective were replaced by SYN. at no cost to him and he was given at no cost to him HYPERgrades to keep him a happy customer.

There are a lot of people out there that are very happy with their N9, and the level of support they have rec'd over the years, but there is always the one guy and in my 5 years with N9 exp. Tyler Lovell is THAT GUY.....The guy that will tell you everything in forum and cant even put a helicopter together per the manual, and is not even close to an accomplished pilot at the field.

TYLER STOP commenting on helicopters or anything to do with them and focus on building and flying at the level of the people that read and post in these forums, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER the SYN community or the entire helicopter community.

The answer is yes by today’s standards the N9 is too expensive, and YES the N5 is priced by today’s standards just as the N9 once was.

Sorry guys I don’t like when people take shots at my friends, when they have been handled with kid gloves, then complain because they cant follow directions.........Everyone else seems to???

----TYLER GO FIND A HOBBY BETTER SUITED FOR YOURSELF!!!

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06-03-2010 06:17 PM  7 years agoPost 84
fr8brkr

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Asheville,NC

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Well stated Carl !

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily

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06-03-2010 06:39 PM  7 years agoPost 85
whaleboy

rrApprentice

Los Angeles, CA

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The list on the first post should be amended. The trex tail shaft includes the tailbox gears. The N9 includes just the shaft, and to replace the gears (which strip very easily, I've done it by barely tapping the tail) will cost $18 each. So the total cost on the N9 tail shaft for comparison really should be $48.50, not $12.50.

That said I had recently done my own comparison for common crash bits between several 90's I was considering. On that list was the T700, Rave ENV, and the Aurora. Last night I added the N9. My list had a smaller number of parts than your list... I was just looking at average comparison, not realistic total crash cost, but my totals were...

700 = $201
ENV = $210
N9 = $314
Aurora = $345

If I add things like tail hub assemblies and front tail gears, the percentage difference goes up. I have an N9 and I love it... I have no plans on dumping it. However, I recently decided I wanted another 90 that would be cheaper to fix. I crash very rarely now, but as I start pushing things, as I need to for my skills to progress, I expect to crash more. I chose the ENV, which is on par with the 700 parts prices. Hopefully when that comes out I'll have 2 great 90 sized helis to fly, but I'll likely feel more comfortable pushing the ENV to my limits...

-David

Synergy N9; E-Aurora; Logo600se; Logo500; Logo400;Trex500;
All FBL..

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06-03-2010 08:15 PM  7 years agoPost 86
pariah

rrVeteran

South Jordan, UT - United States of America

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Ugh. And I just removed the tail box gears. I know they come with the torque tube on the Trex. A few of the above posts just stated they've never had to replace those gears, so I removed them. Easy to add them back, though.


--
The last thing I want in a heli is a few loose screws.

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06-03-2010 08:29 PM  7 years agoPost 87
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

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Things often overlooked in these price comparison is the quality of the parts. What happens to the overall cost when you need to buy 3 Align tail hubs before you get one that is straight. I've seen this first hand.

Then there is the quality of the Align aluminum. The upper mixing arms on the 700 bend pretty easily (seen more than one bend on a rough auto). The main grips are also one piece so a slight bend requires a new $50 grip. Not to mention the $10 tail case arm that bends just looking at it or the clutch bell that has a habit of exploding on impact.

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06-03-2010 09:25 PM  7 years agoPost 88
pariah

rrVeteran

South Jordan, UT - United States of America

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Things often overlooked in these price comparison is the quality of the parts. What happens to the overall cost when you need to buy 3 Align tail hubs before you get one that is straight. I've seen this first hand.
This is a valid concern, unfortunately it's hard to quantify fairly, which is why I haven't tried to account for it. I didn't really want to deal with various claims about 'quality' anyway, so I've had to assume parts are good.


--
The last thing I want in a heli is a few loose screws.

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06-04-2010 01:13 AM  7 years agoPost 89
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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Hmmmm

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06-04-2010 01:40 AM  7 years agoPost 90
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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In all honesty, I have had some expensive ships. I dont build them to crash so I never consider crash costs when buying a heli. If you are factoring that into purchasing a Synergy, honestly you may want to look for another heli.

I know more people that absolutly STUFF there Trexs by pushing themselves way too hard because they are cheap to fix. So double or triple their crash cost. By the time you get to flying a Synergy you know what your doing so you dont crash as much. There half the crash cost in a nutshell...life according to me..

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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06-04-2010 02:09 AM  7 years agoPost 91
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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Mr. Carl Bonta

Thank you for verify my point I made earlier.

I was always told by synergy camp that I was the only person with problems. I was the one at fault. I couldn't build.

Let's remember that the N9 was promoted as the best flagship 3D heli that was easy to build, low parts count, required no upgrades, was bullet proof, and the most reliable heli ever created. For me, an average pilot and an average builder without access to a million dollar machine shop, those qualities were appealing and hopefully even worth the extra money.

My N9's didn't deliver. Shame on me.

You're rant has proven my perspective perfectly. Great job!!

Secondly, if my flying skills disqualify me from possessing anything to offer the heli community, then please explain to me how YOU are so much more qualified? I'd go Carl Bonta vs. Tyler Lovell any day at the flight line. Game?

Now, why would a fully sponsored Synergy team member, the creator of Hyper-formance upgrades (exclusively for the N9), and the cnc machinist for multiple helicopter manufacturers take such a volatile stance against a consumer like myself that paid hard earned cash for his N9's that didn't deliver?

To be fair, I will say that your hyperformance products really did improve the N9, I always admired your engineering and quality of parts. The style was HOT, too. That leads me to a question...

Why did you feel the need to create these hyper parts? As I recall, you called them fixes, not upgrades.

Also, if sales abound and the N9 has won over the market, then why have you closed down Hyperformance? Not enough time to produce the vast quantities for such a popular fixes for a popular machine?

As far as having nothing to offer to the public helicopter community, why don't you ask the 72 year old pilot that I had the pleasure of buddy boxing from basic hovering all the way to advanced forward flight. Yep, I inspected and programmed his helicopter. I coached him and helped him. I was encouraging and supportive. He flies his helis with confidence and great pleasure now, all by himself. Since you are not a pilot yourself, I challenge you to take up r/c helicopters at 72 years of age and tell me how easy it is. Even so, we made it work. Together we made sure he realized his dream of flying solo. If you don't call that something to offer, well, then I'm speechless.

Lets keep this discussion in perspective. I paid for everything, including the parts you falsely claimed to have tossed my way. You, on the other hand speak from a position of total sponsorship and hyper-profiting.

Thanks again for yet another lashing. I expect nothing else from you.

I do find pleasure in the T700 that I built according to the book with no upgrades. It flies great and my fuel doesn't foam. My Hirobo SDX flies great in stock form with a lowly TT redline engine w/OS carb. I just fuel and fly both helis. They rock!! I built both and they work like a dream. Well, maybe the heli fairies did help a little while I was asleep. How can such a pathetic waste of human flesh like myself find great success in two, other helicopters? Is it me? Is it the helicopters?

Tyler LOVELL

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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06-04-2010 02:45 AM  7 years agoPost 92
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver, Colorado

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Way to go Carl. So your business model is help the paying customer, if the customer isn't happy with the product, then they are unintelligent stupid crybabies and should just go away and shut up. Atta boy bud! you show em'. You sure showed me.

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06-04-2010 04:42 AM  7 years agoPost 93
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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Hmmmmm

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06-04-2010 05:22 AM  7 years agoPost 94
pariah

rrVeteran

South Jordan, UT - United States of America

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Please keep your comments on topic; I've already said I'm not interested in anybody's grievances from the past. There are plenty of other places to argue to you heart's content.


--
The last thing I want in a heli is a few loose screws.

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06-04-2010 05:48 AM  7 years agoPost 95
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver, Colorado

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Well, I think this is a 'controversial' topic because as you prolly already know, guys who own a particular heli will defend it to the death, even in light of its short comings. Then add is some reps or people who have profited from the machine in the past and it's a all out war. haha.

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06-04-2010 07:01 AM  7 years agoPost 96
evo4ever

rrApprentice

kenna w.v.

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I think if you pick through some of the posts it becomes obvious the N9 costs more to own and crash than the 700. To determine if it is too expensive every individual would need to submit their personal finances to an accountant for a hobby expenditures evaluation. That extra 35% just may not fit into you're budget. It appears one thing is for certain the N9 definetly stirs peoples emotions.
Devan

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06-04-2010 04:22 PM  7 years agoPost 97
r.s.m.

rrApprentice

Greenville SC

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GUYS, its just a hobby, find what fits your budget and flying style and stick with it. there is no need to argue the point of which is better, or to ruin freindships over a hobby. i have myself tried both and as long as my budget can afford anything in this hobby i will stick with the intimidater lol. just have fun and enjoy this wonderful hobby

shannon

2 chronicles 7-14 "We the People"

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06-04-2010 04:25 PM  7 years agoPost 98
fr8brkr

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Asheville,NC

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Perhaps it's time to close this ridiculous thread - What started out as a reasonable topic has simply turned into a joke. There is a more useful purpose for these threads.

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily

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06-04-2010 04:34 PM  7 years agoPost 99
evo4ever

rrApprentice

kenna w.v.

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+1

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06-04-2010 04:36 PM  7 years agoPost 100
pariah

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South Jordan, UT - United States of America

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I agree; I think the bit I was interested in learning is done, and it has degenerated into a grudge match. I thought there wouldn't be much controversy in asking for additional input for where my figures needed improvement.

Thanks to all those who gave helpful, useful input.


--
The last thing I want in a heli is a few loose screws.

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