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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Tempest fai head discussion
09-07-2003 01:16 AM  14 years agoPost 61
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Yeah, yeah..............bite me, dough boy .

Ben

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09-07-2003 02:59 AM  14 years agoPost 62
Optech

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San Diego, CA.

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OHhhhhhhhhhhhh! Burrrrrn!

Whoever you are, give Ben back his body!

ROFLMAO!

Mike

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09-07-2003 03:48 AM  14 years agoPost 63
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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HeeHeeHee!

Yeah, Ben, you thought I just sucked at FAI. Hard isn't it.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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09-07-2003 09:11 AM  14 years agoPost 64
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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12 flights today...

Did 12 flights on the Tempest today, just hovering and autos, I don't have the canopy yet so no aerobatics.

Mainly tuning the Cline fuel system and getting used to it all.

First off, this Cline thing is the deal eh. The engine starts now with literally the touch of the starter button, none of this cranking business anymore! Need to figure out a better way of releasing the pressure in the tank at the end of the flight though, pulling the pressure line off all the time doesn't turn me on.

The heli seems happiest at 1550 RPM, I tried it at 1400 but it didn't feel great, 1450-1500 wasn't optimum either with a hint of 'mast bump' (the whole heli oscilated), but at 1550 the planets lined up and the heli just 'felt' good.
Ben, sorry I didn't read your message before I went to the field, but based on what I did today, I would say the heli would start wobbling around those speeds.
I know what you're talking about though, I've had this same thing on my CS with the MS FAI blades. You'll be descending smoothly then it will just drop all of a sudden. I DID notice that that was less of an issue today. Whether that is the machine or the blades I'm not sure.

I feel that the heli does edge out the CS in the hovering at this stage. The heli lifts off the circle and goes straight up without any tendencies to stray.
I have also seen that the Tempest 'settles' quicker too. For example with the CS I had trouble getting the helicopter to sit still at the top of the climbing piroette in the rectangle. Now, the Tempest will pretty much sort itself out.
This heli seems to be very much one where if you let it do the work it will make things easy on you.

Auto performance is what you would expect for a machine with 720's on it. VERY good .

After hearing everyone talk about how responsive the head was and how much Dual Rate/Expo people were using I was expecting to find a snappy feel. Especially with no weights in the paddles. However I am at 80% AFR limit and -20% AFR Expo and I would not want to go any less lest I feel like I was 'rowing the boat'.

Overall, very impressed with the machine, looking forward to trying the aeros!

On another note, I noticed this around the main and bevel gears, can anyone give me an idea of what's up here? Is this an indication that the gears are not seated correctly or is it just a sign of things bedding in?

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-07-2003 04:59 PM  14 years agoPost 65
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Si,

The gears are just bedding in. You'll notice the dust going away over the next several tanks, especially when you get the idle up engaged. Tidy it up during that time to avoid it sneaking into the lower mainshaft and tail tranny drive bearings.

The models seem to settle themselves down regardless of the mechanics; that's Cliff's head doing the work. We've noticed that characteristic whether the head was mounted on a Tempest, Pro, Extreme, or SE. You/we/us have to teach ourselves to quit "fixing" things so much and to let the model just fly. The head gets royally PO'd when you start feeding it a bunch of spurious corrections, especially during piros.

Early secondhand feedback from Gordie suggests that he wasn't able to get the headspeed with the RT's much below 1500 either.

RE your engine, welcome to the world of a Cline or Yamada pressurized fuel system. Now you know why YS is so favored in the US by contest pilots. Just put a "T" fitting in your pressure line for venting; it'll become second nature to vent at flight's end.

Ben Minor

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09-07-2003 05:14 PM  14 years agoPost 66
Optech

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San Diego, CA.

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>>> Just put a "T" fitting in your pressure line for venting; it'll become second nature to vent at flight's end. <<<

Yeah....... Especially after you get your first "YS Bath" or two.

Mike

Viva La Airtronics!

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09-07-2003 11:13 PM  14 years agoPost 67
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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I'm about 2/3's of the way through writing my building article on the Tempest vs CS, hopefully will be out this week.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-15-2003 07:08 AM  14 years agoPost 68
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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Here's some pics of the finished machine with the CS.

Got the canopy last night and was a bit gutted to find that to fit the canopy to the standard mounts was going to require cutting it to clear the muffler, which just ain't gonna happen now I've had it painted. Instead, I found that when mounted on the rear holes, you can lift the front of it up about 4-5mm which then allows it to clear everything. I'll get some new mounts made up for it.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-20-2003 10:38 AM  14 years agoPost 69
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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First Aerobatics

Managed to get quite a few flights on the Tempest today including first loops and rolls.

Very impressed so far, the machine definately does hover better in gusts than the CS, however I really for the life of me can't see how you other guys are getting away with using just 2 or 3 degrees of cyclic in hover, the machine is very docile out of the box and I feel that in gusty days a dumbed down setup would be more of a boon than a bonus.

I have noticed however that the machine does want to slightly fly into the wind in the hover. I'm currently running the 0.9:1 flybar ratio and no weights in the paddles.
I also noticed that in forward flight just before a roll the machine has to be 'reigned back' to lift the nose somewhat. It feels like it needs a little back elevator and I can see why you other guys are investigating larger fins.
However I'm going to try reducing the flybar ratio to lessen the power of the flybar system. In order to feel some effect, I've gone for the lowest ratio (0.65:1) just to make sure I feel some difference. I expect this will quicken the roll rate also as it certainly increased the collective and cyclic pitch.

Overall, still very impressed so far with the machine, although I am regretting not having the fuel 'windows' cut out on the canopy as checking the fuel level is a royal pain in the ass now . I didn't realise just how much this canopy covered the machine until I mounted it!

Si

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Simon Lockington

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09-20-2003 06:21 PM  14 years agoPost 70
Skyline

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Walnut, CA - USA

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Impressive work si. I really like your paint scheme too! Keep up the good work and keep us updated on your findings. This is all very interesting to read.

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09-21-2003 11:21 AM  14 years agoPost 71
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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Feedback on 0.65:1 flybar ratio

Had the opportunity to fly again today in once again, nasty ass winds.
This time the Tempest was setup with 0.65:1 flybar ratio and I must say it has made a noticeable difference.
The heli does not now try to fly into the wind and it rolls like an arrow. I do not now have to 'lift the nose' before a roll.
I would say though that the 0.75:1 ratio might even be better as I noticed that the heli was showing signs of being 'blown with the wind'.
I found that increasing Expo to -40 and decreasing DR to 70% also helped the hovering.

It should be remembered that I'm running RotorTech 720's which apparently are a very stable (ie slow cyclic response) than other blades which could be why I'm experiencing different results to others.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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10-12-2003 06:35 AM  14 years agoPost 72
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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Update

With just over 50 flights on the Tempest now I thought I might post an update on things.

Rotorhead
I think I've finally settled on a setup I liked.
I initially started with the recommended setup which was the hard dampener inboard and the soft one on the outside with a single shim. This yielded quite a soft head which proved to be very good at hovering.
However, I'm one who likes quite a snappy setup and although the machine was hovering great, it felt like I was trying to compete in Formula One with a pickup truck when it came time to do the aeros.
When I make changes I like to make substantial ones so that I can see a definate difference, so I then put two hard dampeners in, with the .25 AND the .50 shims which is pretty much as hard as I can make it with the parts supplied with the kit.
As expected, I had to raise the hovering rotor speed up to 1580 in order to stop the machine 'mast bumping', however the aerobatics such as the rolls improved a lot and the hovering did not appear to suffer.
However the roll rate still felt too slow for my liking so I removed the standard paddles and installed some Hirobo Freya ones I had lying around. With the brass weights in and the flybar ratio set at 0.75:1 the heli started to get blown with the wind. I then removed all the weights from the paddles and tried again and this time it sat still with a small tendency to fly into the wind which I didn't mind.
Now the roll rate is up where I like it and the aeros have come back up to the standard set by the Vigor CS.
Surprisingly, it seems that the hovering seems to have improved for me too. I think this is because I'm more used to the sensitive setup.

Engine
Up until today I have been trying to no avail to get rid of a small vibration in the horizontal fin that wasn't serious but was not really acceptable for an F3C helicopter. I changed from the Hatori to the MPII to see if that made a difference, it didn't. I changed plugs from OS 8s, Enya 3's and Enya 4's. The Enya 4's helped, so I decided to try adding an shim to the engine head to see if that would help. I read the article on Ron Lund's site about shimming the head and decided to add another 0.008 thou shim to the stock one and see what would happen. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the vibration was now gone and I could set the needles properly now. I also did not notice any lack of power that you might expect when reducing the compression ratio.
FYI, I run 10% nitro, 15% oil, 75% methanol on an Enya 4 plug with a MPII.

That's pretty much all I have to say at the moment, with these changes the helicopter has really started to show it's potential for me now. It should be remembered also that setup like this is a very personal thing and what works for me does not work for others, as can be seen by the variety of setups discussed here.
The great thing about the Tempest is making all these changes is VERY easy and straight forward. Changing the flybar ratio is a piece of cake whereas on the CS, it's a major engineering development.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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01-15-2004 10:39 PM  13 years agoPost 73
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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Head setup continued....

Hi guys,
I was out playing with the Tempest again last night and wanted to run some things by you.

I'm currently using Rotortech 680 blades (got some 700's on the way). I've got the heli trimmed and setup so that it sits still when sitting nose into the wind. However turn it tail into the wind and it wants to fly backwards into the wind. Trying to counteract this with trim ofcourse stuffs up the hovering nose into the wind.

I've got the headspeed now set to 1450 which it seems happy with.

Anyone else noticed this behaviour?

Si

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Simon Lockington

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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Tempest fai head discussion
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