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Helicopter
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Electric Battery-Charger-pSupply
› How many charge cycles?
01-22-2010 08:03 AM  8 years agoPost 21
naked painter

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Mid glamorgan uk

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If we're only getting 30 -50 cycles, then nitro is the way to go.

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01-22-2010 12:44 PM  8 years agoPost 22
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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I did NOT store-charge them, I stored them fully charged
if you are not going to be using packs for more than a couple of weeks you need to STORAGE charge them,it is pretty much established that storing them at full is not good.

I dont understand how you guys are getting less than 50 cycles out of your batts.whats your flying style?are you doing extreme 3d?temp is a major factor too,what temps do the batts come down at?

Compass helis Support Team
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01-22-2010 03:51 PM  8 years agoPost 23
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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If we're only getting 30 -50 cycles, then nitro is the way to go.
It is not a question of how many cycles, it is a question of cost per cycle. So lets do a simple example. Say you have a 600 sized bird running the worst setup out there, 6s 5000 packs, and you get 30 cycles per pack. Lets also say you use Zippy packs on the bird cause they are cheap and work pretty well. It turns out 6s 5000 30C packs are $75 + shipping. Say you buy 3 so shipping is about $10 each. That makes them $85 each. Now if you divide that by the number of flights then you have cost per flight ... $85 / 30 = $2.83per flight or about 2/3rds the cost of nitro. Of course the flights are shorter but as you can see, even 30 flights of good power is not that expensive. Plus as you go up to larger cell counts the cycle count goes up, and as the packs get smaller for smaller helis, the cost per flight drops a lot.

So go nitro because you only get 30-50 flights be pack? Na just buy your fuel more often

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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01-25-2010 08:08 AM  8 years agoPost 24
naked painter

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Mid glamorgan uk

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Yes, but don't forget that you can get 5 mins on a lipo and about 8 mins on a nitro.

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01-25-2010 03:11 PM  8 years agoPost 25
T-Rex-Flyer

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Panama City, Fl

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Funky Trex that picture look like a fire hazard waiting to happen if one should go, you should send them to me for safe keeping.

Question, How long will a lipo last if not used often? I work every other weekend and if the weather is bad, it's even longer before I get the chance to fly, so my batters get a lot of down time. I don't think I get much over a 100 flights on a battery.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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01-25-2010 03:21 PM  8 years agoPost 26
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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Yes, but don't forget that you can get 5 mins on a lipo and about 8 mins on a nitro.
And you forget that you can tune an electric to fly however you want. It is not hard to get 8min out of one if you limit the power to what a nitro can offer but man is it hard to do that when you have access to 2300rpm on your 600

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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01-26-2010 05:18 AM  8 years agoPost 27
flying4fun

rrApprentice

Sunny SoCal

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Nail on the head there.....

I have 4 packs that I haven't used for the last year, cause I fly only Nitro at the moment.

Two Outrage, and two Thunder Power packs, all of them have approx 40-50 cycles through.

I did NOT store-charge them, I stored them fully charged, and to my amazement, the packs are slightly puffed from standing doing nothing.
Guess they have lost their "punch" LoL
=====================================

They are supposed to be stored at about 50% capacity (3.8-3.9volts) per some manufacturers.

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01-26-2010 01:24 PM  8 years agoPost 28
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Yes, but don't forget that you can get 5 mins on a lipo and about 8 mins on a nitro.
If a nitro could burn fuel fast enough to create the 5000-6000W peaks that guys routinely see with both 600 and 700 class electrics AND the fuel tank size was the same, I can assure you that the run time would not be 8 minutes. People insist on trying to equate the runtime of a 700 nitro that has a 91HZ which won't make over 4 hp in this or any other lifetime with an E700 model like Nick's, Bert's or Ray's that is cranking out way 6hp over and over again with each punch. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Regear and repitch a 700 to 2600W max and runtime dramatically increases. It all depends on how much power you want under the thumb, and guys typically want it all.

But this thread has digressed.......

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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01-26-2010 03:14 PM  8 years agoPost 29
naked painter

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Mid glamorgan uk

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My question is, how many cycles will these guys get from their lipos? Then compare that with nitro..

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01-26-2010 03:26 PM  8 years agoPost 30
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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And my answer above shows enough to make it cheaper than nitro if you don't buy super expensive packs, especially if they are not running stupid insane head speeds and beating the living hell out of the heli.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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01-26-2010 03:36 PM  8 years agoPost 31
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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You can fly a lipo till it takes a piss, but that doesn't mean the it was worth a piss for the last 100 flights.

On average 50 flights with short flight times which are usually half of a nitros flight time. IMO - You guys really need to double the cost per flight to get a true picture.

I, obviously, have not flown as many packs as Fun Trex, but I came to the same conclusion.

Now if you are just flying around, hovering and what not... You can probably get 200 flights and not notice it.

But, if you run your ESC in govern mode, and start doing 3D, then you will notice it.

I don't think that you can compare nitros to electrics. They both have pros and cons. But, I would feel comfortable saying that you will replace your battery before you rebuild you nitro (based on flight time).

Old Guys Rule!

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01-26-2010 03:41 PM  8 years agoPost 32
bopshi

rrApprentice

greenport ny

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I have 2 thunder power 3s 2100 15c that are in thier 3rd year and i get at least 6 min out of them. havent counted but i am sure over 100 flights. never been balance charged, but always timed. I run lower head speed , just sport flying. Dave. might be closer to 2 hundred.!

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01-26-2010 03:42 PM  8 years agoPost 33
Steff Giguere

rrProfessor

St-Eustache, Quebec, Canada

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Not completely true...I have to change bearings in the nitro engines every 50 to 80 flights, whereas I have over 850 flights on my T-Rex 500 and only changed the bearings in the motor once. You are probably right about having to changing batteries before engine goes dead, but the preventive maintenance also has to be calculated (change lining, bearings, piston and ring). Therefore for people like me how can't tune a nitro engine for the life of me, then electric is the way to go.

Team Synergy, Rail blades, Team Scorpion, V-Team

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01-26-2010 04:12 PM  8 years agoPost 34
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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I see some flaws in the Electric argument here.

You guys are saying, "Electrics produce insane power as compared to Nitros." Then you throw in, "Tune it down, run a lower head spead, and limit it to sport flying."

Although I agree with both points, you guys are missing the point.To me it is like saying hey 50 size helis have insane power, and then throwing a 30 size engine in there to say that they have fuel economy, like no other?

If I am just hover at a low head speed, Yes, I can get 7 minutes of flight time and probably 200 flights out of the pack. Why, because the battery died months ago, I just never notice.

It's like taking your car and driving 20mph for 200,000 miles, and saying, "I didn't notice any loss of power."

That is to say that I can still hover my 600N with 0% nitro, and not notice that the ring in the engine is bad, and it's not producing any power, because I haven't done anything to notice that the engine is dead. I mean it is hovering, right?

Does it still fly, YES.

Is it good as new, NO.

The point is the battery is not good as new. You simply haven't done anything to notice it. To repeat myself, I mean it is hovering, right?

Are we talking, about the number of cycles before the loss of battery power is noticeable?

Or

Are we talking about how long it takes a battery to quit taking a charge, period?

Old Guys Rule!

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01-26-2010 04:21 PM  8 years agoPost 35
naked painter

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Mid glamorgan uk

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Apart from the obvious noise difference, what sold me was the ability for a lipo to be charged at 200 cycles plus. Experience has shown this is about 50 cycles before you're back to just hovering and gentle circuits.

I wanted to fly to the same level as I'm flying with my nitro and not having to go back to basics. It's a waste of flight time..

In addition I find that I'm using 2 packs to one tank of fuel. Also I've had numerous ESC and motors fail.

They both have their merits, I just feel people should be aware of the cycle performance..

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01-26-2010 05:07 PM  8 years agoPost 36
mmc205

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PA - USA

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umm, when we say tune it down, we generally mean similar to a nitro bird. Most of my helis have a lot more potential power than a nitro .50 or .90, but i "tune them down" to be on par with a nitro or a bit more powerful so i can be kinder to my lipos. Also, i just don't need all the extra power as i'm more into smooth 3D.

My Logo 400 (4lbs auw) can put out 2 horsepower, but i generally have it tuned down to abut 1.5 or so, so at roughly 1/2 the weight of a glow .50, that would feel like 3 horsepower on a .50 "tuned down"

I've had people ask the guy beside me flying glow .90 why his climb rate and general performance seemed lacking comparing to my trex 500 or logo.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-26-2010 07:29 PM  8 years agoPost 37
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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Really
Once again the point has been missed.

And you are getting 7 to 8 minutes or more of fly time and 200 plus cycles out of your battery with no noticeable loss of power.

Come on, give me a break.

Lipo batteries degrade, period. You can see it in everything from computers to cell phones.

BUT, what you are saying is that batteries used in helis are the exception to the rule.

Enough said.

Old Guys Rule!

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01-26-2010 08:15 PM  8 years agoPost 38
Big Electrics

rrApprentice

New Jersey

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Zanemann007
The same can be said with the Nitro Engine. After the first time you start up the engine it begins to degrade from friction and parts moving at high rates of speed. After so many gallons the engine will start to loose the power it had before once it was broken in.

All things being equal you can not deny that electrics will always have a bigger power to weight ratio. And for most people that fly sport/3D it is hard to see the power loss after 50 cycles and would say that it is only noticeable more toward 100 cycles.

I only need one!

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01-26-2010 08:48 PM  8 years agoPost 39
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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Also, those currently pushing the hyperion g3 lipos ARE getting 200+ cycles before any noticeable degradation occurs. search rc groups for more info

As a nice data point, Mr Mel, who has a logo 700 (swinging 700mm blades) can do medium to hard 3D pushing 4000 watts (thats a roughly 5.4 horsepower, enough to make any nitro .90 look a pretty weak) for 7-8 minutes, and using hyperion g3's, do it for 200+ cycles according to independent hyperion test data.

I have to say, i tried nitro for a while, but with the price of lipos going down and down, and the higher cost of nitro, not to mention the fact that electrics are more powerful, i switched to electric only.

Nitro's are still very cool and i enjoy seeing them flown, but these days even saying they are way cheaper than electrics is getting stretched thin. I'd say the price point for 600 size is pretty even when you take into consideration buying lipo's vs fuel, and the fact that most electric equipment (motor/esc) does not wear and and need rebuilt where as nitro machines do.

In the end, to each his own.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-26-2010 08:50 PM  8 years agoPost 40
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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plus, with 5C charging, you can only buy one or two sets of lipos, an inexpensive deep cycle battery, and fly all day. You can even get away with one set of lipos if you like to BS for 10 minutes between flights. Right now most chargers arn't capable of charging batteries for 600 size helis at 5C, but several are coming out on the market now.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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