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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Tail shakes in idle up
12-31-2009 11:31 PM  7 years agoPost 1
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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I have an old X-cell 60 (1001) from about '93. It's never been crashed and is in perfect condition. It's very smooth in normal mode, but the tail will shake up and down when I switch to idle up. Everything's been balanced and the engine is running very well.

I've read other forums about an adjustment you can make to the head block to assure and equal distance out for each blade. Not sure what they meant but the head has two bolts above the seesaw (#0033)that looks like some kind of adjustment. Does anyone know if adjusting these bolts can help with the tail problem? Thanks.

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01-01-2010 01:13 AM  7 years agoPost 2
groran

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CALIFORNIA CITY, California

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This has always been a problem

With the bent frame style of helis. I gave up on xcell because of this. I came back recently because it has improved. Some of us tried this and that, even getting blueprinted engines from engine mechanics to try to stop the shaking. Some had NO problems from the box with little dial indicating and little other adjustments, but most has alot of problems. Mine would be running fine then all of a sudden, it would start shaking. I even sent the whole heli to Ma and Ted Schoonard himself called me and told me that it done the same to him, but that he had it ironed out. I said great. Got it in the air was sooo smooth then out of nowhere, shaking. I took my stuff out, sold and never went back till recently. Some will tell you to try this and try that and it may get it. Same thing with kasama helis now. I would love to have one, but I'm not gonna spend $1200 and go thru it again. Several will say they got it ironed out, but after weeks, but some as with the xcell, get one straight and true from the box. Try this, take landing gear off. Loosen ALL the screws that hold the frame together, put it on a smooth level square surface like a piece of glass or mirror. Wiggle the whole assembly side to side and then get a square, put it on the side and when it's square, hold and tighten the screws, hope this helps.

Randy Lafleur

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01-01-2010 01:10 PM  7 years agoPost 3
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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The bolts are to square the head to the mainshaft. Loosen both, get your radio and extend the antenna under one blade until it just touches, now swing the blades so the opposite blade is over the tip if they both just touch you are fine. If not adjust until both are touching. Easy to strip these so go easy. I would check the rubber in the tail blade axle as they loose their effectivness over time, the pin that goes through the axle angles foward, front towards nose tail to rear, this way(\), looking from the side.

Chris

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01-01-2010 05:13 PM  7 years agoPost 4
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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thanks

Thanks guys for the advice.

Randy - I'll try squaring it up again, I actually did that when I built it, so maybe it's out again. I did get the starter shaft dialed in too. It's actually really smooth in every other way except the tail bounce at idle up. No foaming in the tank, no canopy shake or skid shake, no vibration in the fins, just that up and down shake of the tail when the headspeed is increased.

Chris - I knew those screws had to be for something! It's funny though, I looked back in the instruction manual and I couldn't find anything about those two screws, other than them being on the parts list. Is is possible that they were already installed? I don't remember putting those in the head. Thanks for the tip with the antenna, great idea. I'll try that.

I want to do a scale project with these mechanics and it's so close to being worthy of it. Thanks. -Bill

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01-01-2010 10:18 PM  7 years agoPost 5
groran

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CALIFORNIA CITY, California

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Also try this

Make sure when you push the tail boom in the housing in front of the heli, that you don't push it in too far. I remember some guys had problems with the bent frame or any other really. If you pushed the "t" bone connector or whatever you have that stabs in the front drive too far, it would shake the tail causing a whipping motion on the torque tube or the wire. I always push mine in till I feel a click, then pull back and forth carefully feeling it hit the front and then the back, and trying to set it right in the middle of the front drive socket.

Randy Lafleur

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01-02-2010 12:23 AM  7 years agoPost 6
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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thanks

Randy - That makes sense, so if I had pushed the tail tube in too far, the wire could be bowed just a little and make it whip. Can I loosen the tail housing and pull it back a little without messing up the gear mesh for the tail?

Chris - when you use your antenna, does it matter how far out on the blade you measure? And are you basically measuring the droop of each blade in relation to the head when you do this? It's so strange that MA never mentioned this in the instructions.

Good tip on the rubber in the delta axle too, I forgot about that.

Thanks guys. -Bill

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01-02-2010 02:08 AM  7 years agoPost 7
groran

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CALIFORNIA CITY, California

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I don't think so

I think the tail rotor has a hole or something that does't allow it to be moved in or out I may be wrong without looking at it. Now if I remember correct you can slide the boom back from the front. There may be a plastic track for a slot in the boom to slide into, now that can be pulled out some for sure at least 1-2 mm would be enough to correct this, I've done it many times. Do you have a wire to drive the tail or torque tube? If a wire it can absolutely do the whip thing if pushed too far in.

Randy Lafleur

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01-02-2010 04:02 AM  7 years agoPost 8
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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wire drive

Yes - it's the wire drive, but it's inside a brass tube and supported by 4 tube guides. You're right, the tail's plastic case has a area of plastic that has to fit snug to the boom. So the adjustment is at the frame then. So if I mark where the boom is with tape, then pull it out 1-2mm, that should be enough? And the drive wire is left tight - I'm NOT sliding it too, right? Just pull the boom a little, that's all? Thanks. -Bill

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01-02-2010 01:56 PM  7 years agoPost 9
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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If I remember correct the wire is locked in place with set screws to a flat spot that was ground on the wire, so those will need to be loosened. While you are at it check that the wire has some grease left on it. The aluminum piece in the front that receives the wire is very prone to bending, that would be worth a look. I check the blades at the tip but probably does not matter where you check if using carbon blades. Have you replaced the dampners in the main blade grips.

Chris

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01-04-2010 12:19 AM  7 years agoPost 10
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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Chris - you're right about the set screws and the machined flat on the drive wire. So just loosen those set screws, and slide the boom back 1-2mm and re-tighten? I can also check the runout on the aluminum part you mentioned and grease the wire again. My blades are carbon and the dampers are original. The dampers have been lubricated and have very low hours, not sure if that matters. -Bill

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01-04-2010 01:18 AM  7 years agoPost 11
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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You don't lube MA dampners. What you stated will work fine about the wire and boom.

Chris

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01-04-2010 03:38 AM  7 years agoPost 12
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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Ok thanks, I will try that. There was a post here about a similar tail shake and the dampers were mentioned as one of the culprits. Some were lubricating them with Tri-flow but not grease. I guess they dry out, but when I built mine I put them in dry just like the manual says. I did try the Tri-flow but it didn't change anything.

UPDATE

Well, I've done all the things that were recommended but I can't seem to find a phillips head screw driver that is both small enough to get under the blade grip AND the right size to fit the screw. And it's true, they are real easy to strip. Do you have a method or special tool, or did you take the head apart to loosen them? I did take the head off, but that didn't help. It would be nice to be able to loosen these without taking the seesaw off. Any ideas? I'm almost ready to test this thing for the shakes. Thanks. -Bill

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01-14-2010 07:24 PM  7 years agoPost 13
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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Flew today

Well I finally got a decent day that wasn't 20 degrees. Very strange weather for Florida. Actually very nice now, about 65 and a light wind.

All of the tweaks proved to be what was needed, this thing is so smooth it looks like it's hanging from an invisible string in hover! No up and down shake in the tail whatsoever, no matter what blade speed I used. Beautiful. Perfect tracking, flat and calm fuel, no fin or canopy shakes or skid blurs. Really very cool for a 16 year old helicopter!

Now I have to tweak the needle settings, throttle and pitch curves a little bit more to calm it down for a fuselage. It wants to do more than sport flying it seems. Vertical performance was pretty good, even by today's standards.

So I would like to thank Chris and Randy for their great advice. Everything that was recommended was done and it worked. I am now ready to buy a fuselage. Thanks guys. -Bill

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01-14-2010 11:57 PM  7 years agoPost 14
marc8090

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Long Island, N.Y.

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Even though you got it sorted out I would check your boom support(s). Whenever I had a tail shake develop on a MA heli it was almost always a boom support end that came loose from the carbon rod. Remove the support(s) and put an allen driver or something similar through the holes in both ends and pull hard. Check to make sure they are glued on securely.

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01-15-2010 12:41 AM  7 years agoPost 15
bscfo1

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Tampa, Florida - USA

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Marc, that was one of the things I actually did - I think I read about it in another post before I made mine. I tighten everything up, and epoxyed and anchored the support with a screw on each side for extra measure. Definitely helped. Thanks for writing in.

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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Tail shakes in idle up
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