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HelicopterRadio - JR DMSS › ***NEW*** JR x9503 Radio
01-02-2010 02:47 PM  7 years agoPost 21
FloridaHeli

rrVeteran

jacksonville, florida

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Throttle activated Timer on X9303?

simchippy

I'm interested in the throttle activated timer too.

Would you please enlighten us on how you did it?

This hobby is WAY too expensive!!

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01-02-2010 03:17 PM  7 years agoPost 22
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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what a let down........

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01-03-2010 11:56 PM  7 years agoPost 23
onewasp

rrApprentice

USA

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Quote
"jschenck
rrProfessor
Location: La Vista, NE.

My Posts This: Topic Forum
Quote
Due Late January, 2010

<slaps knee> HA HA! We should take a poll on what the real ship date will be. Has HH ever hit the first publicly announced 'Due Date'?
Quote
_________________________________________________________

How quickly we forget !
Anyone "see" the DX7 with 2.4GHz SS coming?? Not a soul of whom I am aware.

Also the X9503 is an update of the X9303 not a new offering so it's relatively easy to accomplish a running change.
A nice up date if you need or want the features. I don't but that is just me.
Demand will = usual X9303 sales. No reason to expect more is there?

I don't think HH ever felt differently than that about the X9503.

11X USA variant?
Now that may be a different story.
So far I'm an 'I pass' there too as I am totally put off by the "child's toy" styling. The fact that I neither need nor want the additional channels etc. also is a deal breaker for me.

To each his own.

After flying the 11ms 'se' set up, that has become my personal minimum (maximum depending on how you view it) acceptable frame rate.

Unfortunately additional channels slow down frame rate so to reach that level becomes even harder.

We shall see the future only when it becomes the present.

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01-04-2010 02:11 AM  7 years agoPost 24
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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After flying the 11ms 'se' set up, that has become my personal minimum (maximum depending on how you view it) acceptable frame rate.

Unfortunately additional channels slow down frame rate so to reach that level becomes even harder.
There are plenty of radios out there where the additional channels make absolutely no difference to the frame rate.

TM

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01-04-2010 06:35 AM  7 years agoPost 25
JetFire

rrKey Veteran

The Golden STATE

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I've been thinking long and hard for several months now on crossing over to the Dark side and been eyeing on the 9303 because a friend of mine had one and I liked it very much. When I first heard of the 9503 I was excited to see what new features it had to offer. Other than the price being slightly cheaper than the 9303... So far, I'm not empressed. However, the price range does get my attention.


Trex700N Pro
DX8-2.4
Spartan/BL9088

-The ONLY way you fail is when you quit.-

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01-04-2010 07:34 AM  7 years agoPost 26
simchippy

rrNovice

Long Island NY

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Check out this thread and link to order a easily installed module to activate the timer when you move the throttle stick up.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1129154

Takes about 10 days to get, easy to install. Did back light mod at same time. That was a little tricky to install

Sim

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01-04-2010 06:03 PM  7 years agoPost 27
onewasp

rrApprentice

USA

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TMoore

Quote
"
There are plenty of radios out there where the additional channels make absolutely no difference to the frame rate.

TM
Quote

As we are on the Spektrum DSM thread I assumed that that we are talking about DSM2 Txs'/systems
First, I should have stated that and didn't.

Secondly, I am NOT an expert on DSM2 or many other facets of RC radios and readily admit that. [Though I do possess a very basic understanding through 30+ years in HAM radio and my ticket (Gen. Class)is still valid and up to date. I have also been active in RC flying for 50+ years.]

Third, I was focused on the factors affecting system latency not merely Tx frame rate. That too I should have stated.

Fourth, the information I quoted came from Horizon. So, since I am not an expert I'll simply quote it as accurately as I can.
Quote
"Three main factors affect Latency.
1) Tx frame rate
2) channel processing time
3) signal processing time (or Rx processing time)

All put together will, give you the system latency usually expressed in ms.
For example our Surface radios have a frame rate of 5.5ms but we are talking about only 2-3 channels. (less information to be transmitted)
On 7channels, you are pretty close to the end of any meaningful frame rate reduction with the 'se' at 11ms"
Quote

As I said I am no expert on this.
However, that certainly sounds to me as if it says channel processing time adversely, but necessarily, adds to the latency. And by implication, frame rate.

Looking at Spektrum/JR current Air Radios frame rates they stated:
"Fastest is the 'se', next is the DX7 and then the X9303/(X9503) and 12x at 22ms." I have neither experience nor figures with the 5e or the 6i.

Again I need enlightenment on the subject as I am not expert on DSM2 or latency. This is why I originally asked the questions of HH.
I am well acquainted with JKos' published data but even that is in dire need of updating with the rapid progression of 2.4GHz SS.
Latency is also affected by the design of the Rx. A number of them are not shown by JKos.
Quite understandable as he is doing this on a pro bono basis and it requires both time and component availability.

If you can explain your statement further or point out where my information (derived from HH) is in error I would appreciate it.
If you are pointing to the fact that 22ms is sort of the norm in the Spektrum/JR DSM2 Tx line up then that I understand.

What I do not understand is your statement:
"There are plenty of radios out there where the additional channels make absolutely no difference to the frame rate."
That seems 180* out of phase with HH's comments to me on the subject.

I look forward to your reply.

BTW If either Paul Beard or John Adams would care to step in, it would be appreciated as I wish to be corrected if what I have posted is wrong in any way.
My ego is not at all involved .
The accuracy of the information is.

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01-05-2010 12:24 AM  7 years agoPost 28
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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As we are on the Spektrum DSM thread I assumed that that we are talking about DSM2 Txs'/systems
First, I should have stated that and didn't.

Secondly, I am NOT an expert on DSM2 or many other facets of RC radios and readily admit that. [Though I do possess a very basic understanding through 30+ years in HAM radio and my ticket (Gen. Class)is still valid and up to date. I have also been active in RC flying for 50+ years.]

Third, I was focused on the factors affecting system latency not merely Tx frame rate. That too I should have stated.

Fourth, the information I quoted came from Horizon. So, since I am not an expert I'll simply quote it as accurately as I can.
Quote
"Three main factors affect Latency.
1) Tx frame rate
2) channel processing time
3) signal processing time (or Rx processing time)

All put together will, give you the system latency usually expressed in ms.
For example our Surface radios have a frame rate of 5.5ms but we are talking about only 2-3 channels. (less information to be transmitted)
On 7channels, you are pretty close to the end of any meaningful frame rate reduction with the 'se' at 11ms"
Quote

As I said I am no expert on this.
However, that certainly sounds to me as if it says channel processing time adversely, but necessarily, adds to the latency. And by implication, frame rate.

Looking at Spektrum/JR current Air Radios frame rates they stated:
"Fastest is the 'se', next is the DX7 and then the X9303/(X9503) and 12x at 22ms." I have neither experience nor figures with the 5e or the 6i.

Again I need enlightenment on the subject as I am not expert on DSM2 or latency. This is why I originally asked the questions of HH.
I am well acquainted with JKos' published data but even that is in dire need of updating with the rapid progression of 2.4GHz SS.
Latency is also affected by the design of the Rx. A number of them are not shown by JKos.
Quite understandable as he is doing this on a pro bono basis and it requires both time and component availability.

If you can explain your statement further or point out where my information (derived from HH) is in error I would appreciate it.
If you are pointing to the fact that 22ms is sort of the norm in the Spektrum/JR DSM2 Tx line up then that I understand.

What I do not understand is your statement:
"There are plenty of radios out there where the additional channels make absolutely no difference to the frame rate."
That seems 180* out of phase with HH's comments to me on the subject.

I look forward to your reply.

BTW If either Paul Beard or John Adams would care to step in, it would be appreciated as I wish to be corrected if what I have posted is wrong in any way.
My ego is not at all involved .
The accuracy of the information is.
Since competition is such a great thing for the marketplace I would like to think in light of a new product coming out that the conversation could expand to include not only Spektrum products but also products that drive all manufacturers to be better than they were the day before. Long live Kaizen!

The reason that I stated what I did is because if as you say that Horizon claims that they have reached the practical limit of latency improvement in this quote; "On 7channels, you are pretty close to the end of any meaningful frame rate reduction with the 'se' at 11ms". Then isn't it fair to point out that other manufacturers have found a way to overcome this limitation and go faster with all channels not just 3?

At one time latency was an obsession with Spektrum and now with the 9303 and 12X being slower than a DX7SE, not so much so or at least it would seem to the interested observer. In your original post you said: "After flying the 11ms 'se' set up, that has become my personal minimum (maximum depending on how you view it) acceptable frame rate.

Unfortunately additional channels slow down frame rate so to reach that level becomes even harder".

I'm glad to see that 50+ years in the RC hobby has not diminished the need for speed, I concur with that as I'm rapidly approaching the age where I can finally enjoy some additional discounts due to the gray hair on my head. As I said before, there are manufacturers that are pushing the latency numbers to the absolute minimum with all channels being updated in every frame and doing quite well at it so why would someone expect less from the market leader? As so many have pointed out, a backlit display, a stick switch for the timer and the continued necessity of the robot arm to get the TX to correctly balance is hardly news that makes a Spektrum flier jump out of their current radio and line up to buy even at a slightly reduced price. You would think that if they were coming out with a new and improved 9303 that they would at least improve the things that are most important like latency for instance or the ability to update software in the field by the enduser or even just a little thing like getting the TX to balance correctly and not just gigging the modeler for another series in a long line of sameness.

Surely the airplane and the glider pilots deserve faster responding radios too but it would seem that only the heli pilot that uses a DX7SE gets to enjoy the faster responding system while those that are pursuing their passion for all aircraft can't take advantage of new technology. Don't airplane and glider pilots deserve to go fast too? The argument has been that only the three cyclic/collective servos need to be fast and other channels updating at the current rate were needed to support legacy accessories is moot at this point as most if not all of the accessory manufacturers have updated their products to support radios that update every channel in every frame so now accessories like governors that used to freak out when the Aux channel was being updated at the same time as the throttle work correctly.

Is the 9503 truly the updated radio from the 9303 that so many of the Spektrum faithful have been waiting for is it just a placeholder until something truly "better" comes along?

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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01-05-2010 01:55 AM  7 years agoPost 29
onewasp

rrApprentice

USA

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I don't think there is much doubt that the X9503 is but a 'place holder' as you call it. (not without reason I might add).
The manner in which HH introduced it supports that thought as well.

The "Transformer Toy" AKA 11X IS the only NEW radio I see from HH in time for the 2010 season.
I would HOPE that they would change the appearance of that child's toy before it gets the USA treatment and is introduced here.
I'm afraid I'm 'had' on that one.

However in what little I've seen or read on the features it seems pretty evolutionary. However, the USA version could be COMPLETELY different. We'll have to wait and see.
Having literally created the full range 2.4GHz market they really don't need anything radically new in order to sell there wares. Their competition does.

The one 14MZ we have has hardly been impressive. To date we have no HiTec fliers. Having owned and flown a 10X for five years I was never a candidate for the 12X. I already considered the 10X absurd overkill and the 12X is even more so. VERY nice radio but for what?

I have had such unparalleled precision from the first JR (Circus Hobby days) an Unlimited 8 through the 10 series and DX7 to the present Spektrum 'se' and JR X9303 that I would hate to see them screw up what I have found to be pure perfection in use.
Face it, if you can't compete on ANY level with the DX7 much less the 'se', X9303 or 12X then it ain't the radio holding you back.

I have found service and support to be about perfect as well. Certainly the absolute best I have encountered and that experience dates back to the Bramco five, a Ground based 5 Watt Tx etc.

For me the choice is quite clear. I need no more. Not SD cards, not online updates, not more channels and certainly not a Transformer Toy.
SPEED and Precision you betcha. That would interest me. Again it is hard to see how that could be improved. I can string 10s together in a variable crosswind now!
To the point that even the pilot is amazed.

We used to be about 60% Futaba and 40% JR here. Now I know but one Futaba flier and EVERYTHING else 2.4GHz is Spektrum or JR DSM2.
I would never have believed the totality of the switch. Nor its swiftness.

However, everyone is entitled to their own choice. And competition improves the breed. My fear however is that the meaningless gee gaw will become the battle ground not the meat and potatoes.
No interest here.

If it demonstrably makes me a better flier I'm interested (startled because I don't think so) but that could entice me to buy/sell. I never keep the stuff I'm replacing save for one back up.

This could be an interesting year.
I think Mike Mayberry is creating his own nursery rhyme. No One I know has even inquired about it. Damn thing is OVER three years late and HiTec's v1 performamnce has been very sad in the past.
From an Airtronics standpoint they have been popular here on the surface end. I've never seen one at any type of Air competition EVER. That's a lot of years.

Summary, I've been around for a long time. I make changes based upon reason, (Witness my one week change from a spectakular 10X to a DX7, followed by a two to three week change from X9303 to 'se'.

Everyone should follow there desires----I'm following mine!
I see nothing remotely interesting at the moment.
But, I shall keep an open mind.
While not from Missouri you still have got to SHOW me.

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01-05-2010 03:23 AM  7 years agoPost 30
pH7

rrKey Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI - USA

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simchippy said:
Check out this thread and link to order a easily installed module to activate the timer when you move the throttle stick up.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1129154

Takes about 10 days to get, easy to install. Did back light mod at same time. That was a little tricky to install

Sim
I searched and found this on my own and have already ordered it. I hope my experience is as good as yours.

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01-07-2010 12:47 AM  7 years agoPost 31
chopper_crazy

rrElite Veteran

Delphos, Ohio

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I personally don't think it is that much different than the X9303 radio.

It's a complex, costly, glow powered anti-gravity machine!

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01-07-2010 09:54 PM  7 years agoPost 32
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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The X9503 is discussed on this Podcast

I haven't listened to yet. It's 26 minutes long.

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01-08-2010 02:23 AM  7 years agoPost 33
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I've never heard anyone get so excited about a stick switch for a timer.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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01-08-2010 03:24 AM  7 years agoPost 34
Entityofme1

rrApprentice

Birmingham, AL.

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JR would have been better off and may have even made more money if they had just offered a back light upgrade by sending in your remote for $50..I'm not excited about this remote in the least. I'm glad though that spektrum released a new metal gear servo that is a semi competitive option against the Align DS610's.

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01-08-2010 03:45 AM  7 years agoPost 35
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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I listened to that podcast and I learned that the X9303 has officially been discontinued.

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01-08-2010 07:15 AM  7 years agoPost 36
wing warrior

rrNovice

las vegas nevada usa.

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On a good note used and new JRx9303s will be vary reasonable to buy on the new and used market and you won't be missing much :} and saving $$

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01-08-2010 01:25 PM  7 years agoPost 37
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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what I see the model designations make sense 9503 is the same as the 9303 with a 50 model storage capability. Like getting a V2 of 'something'. I prefer the new model designation rather than 9303 V2.5 or some other software like designation.

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01-08-2010 01:38 PM  7 years agoPost 38
colsy

rrElite Veteran

Cambridge, UK

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The sooner its released the better, that way 9x11's/9303's will drop in value.
As the 9x11/9303 radio is way WAY overpriced now,.

col.

Only Quote From Experience.

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01-08-2010 01:40 PM  7 years agoPost 39
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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If I had to guess the Aurora has gotten their attention. The 10SG and 8FG are also providing significant competition. It's all good for us at this point - well for those buying new radios. My 9303 will be my primary for quite a while.

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01-08-2010 03:48 PM  7 years agoPost 40
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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It's about time JR got a throttle stick twitch timer on the lower price models. Futaba has them on even the cheapest of radios. That was my biggest pet peeve about the 9303 was the lack of stick switch timer.

As for a backlit display, you think since every cellphone has a full color display now that all of the radios would come with backlit full color displays as well. Seems they are behind the times on this one.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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