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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › How well does flight stabilazation work on scales?
12-31-2009 04:59 PM  7 years agoPost 1
ttsingram

rrVeteran

Lincoln, Ne

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I'll admit I'm not the best pilot out there. Far from it. Just for a little protection I was thinking about putting a FMA Copilot in my Hirobo Huey. And other scales down the road. Would this be worth it?

It still has the flybar so I'm not talking about the systems to go FBL. I have mild dyslexia so I would like some extra protection just in case I run into trouble.

I thought about the helicommand but right now I just don't have that kind of money.

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12-31-2009 05:09 PM  7 years agoPost 2
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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the co pilot wold work fine for a scaler flybar or not. i tried it n one when they were first available. i just hated the snesor being out there where it was visible and out of place pn a scale machine.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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12-31-2009 05:26 PM  7 years agoPost 3
MiniBichus

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Orlando, FL

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SK-360 has worked flawlessly for me for the last year on two scale birds. I can't recommend it enough.

G.

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12-31-2009 05:34 PM  7 years agoPost 4
ttsingram

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Lincoln, Ne

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Thanks Copter Doctor, I new you would chime in. The Hirobe is just a sport scale anyways, I think I could put the horiziontal sensor looking out one of the side doors, and the fuse has coolling holes for the engine on the bottom so I can put the other sensor there. I also thought I read somewhere they are making fiber optics so the sensors can be more inside.

MiniBichus, I'm interested in the SK360 also, I have read very good things about it. A kid at our indoor fly has one on a FBL Trex 450 and it looks great, but at three times the price I'm just not sure right now.

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12-31-2009 05:49 PM  7 years agoPost 5
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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yes the skookum unit does get high marks but the co pilot willgive you similar results at a much lesser cost for scale flying. the fiber optics setup is probably the way to go then aye?

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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01-02-2010 02:19 AM  7 years agoPost 6
wingtip

rrApprentice

Indiana

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we use the helicommand units on all our apaches ( Indyhelis ).. they made a huge improvement and actually made them flyable.. so much its like flying a raptor 30...

would like to try some other brands to see how they do as well..

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01-02-2010 07:09 AM  7 years agoPost 7
MiniBichus

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Orlando, FL

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Sorry, I disagree. I tried the HC Rigid on my 500 size scale for 1 week and I felt that it was arguably better than flying my multiblade helicopter without any gyro assist.

Helicommand uses old technology piezogyros on it so you'll get drift, lots of it and on the 3 axis: the tail gyro is marginally better than flying a Bluebird 19.95 dollar rate/piezogyro and you can't even begin to compare the difference in tail holding power versus the Spartan DS760 tail gyro, which blows the HC away, everything that matter, no drift, piro consistency, piro stopping, no bounce backs, it just feels like its linked to your brain... HC... well.... Same goes for the cyclic vs. the SK-360. Using the SK-360 letting go means letting go, as in the heli stops and doesn't keep on moving around like HC does. It still shows all the tendencies it is supposed to get rid of, like pitch up in FF, pitch down when in BF, doing funnels with it is just plain scary... I didn't even bother going upside down...

OTH, it did work on my flybarred helicopter without the rigid part, and it was kinda neat to see it hovering the heli without input but even that only works if the helicopter 5 feet or closer over the ground so it is useless in mid air and then even when close, it doesn't work if its too dark or sometimes with overcast days. Sorry 600 bucks to see my helicopter hover without my inputs is not justifiable. Stay away from HC really, its overpriced and any newer generation stabilization system is gonna perform bounds and leaps better on your multiblade helicopter.

I won't even go into the setup nightmare just to get HC Rigid working...

One last rant: Helicommand is not insurance for your scale helicopter as you might be led to believe, instead, it is more like a liability and a waste of money. Get the SK-360 or the V-bar, I don't know about others beyond those 2 but I have nearly 1000 flights using SK-360 on 2 different scale helicopters and never had a glitch or a problem with them.

If you ask me, I would wait until the SK-720 with 3-axis gyros and 3-axis accelerometers comes out and that will do 99% of what the Helicommand was supposed to do without breaking the bank and working near flawlessly in under 30 minutes.

G.

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01-02-2010 01:07 PM  7 years agoPost 8
Christopher J

rrElite Veteran

Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

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Isn't the Co-pilot still heat sensitive? If so it may not work very well inside a fuse, even if "looking" outside a window on the body. If they have improved them then I say go for it.

Since the Sokum and Helicommand are a little pricey for you look and see if anybody has a Helitronix mixer for sale, these with two cheap gyros work very well.

Christopher J
same as I ever was
"Still all set & Flying the original"

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01-02-2010 04:23 PM  7 years agoPost 9
darrens

rrKey Veteran

United Kingdom

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I have had an entirely different experience with the HC, it is the only thing that has made my EC 135 with Vario head flyable. This machine head combo is reknown for being problematic. I still use a 401 on the tail and have not tested the tail gyro as I had heard it was marginal.

He who dies with the most toys is the winner!

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01-02-2010 09:05 PM  7 years agoPost 10
ttsingram

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Lincoln, Ne

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Ok, I looked up the 360 again. It's less than I thought. I think I was origionally thinking of the HC. I just remember the $600 range and was thinking the 360. Might go that way after all.

Just looked at the specs again. It says it is designed for flybarless. And every thread I have read about it they were either flybarless or muli-blade heads.

Can they be used with a flybar?

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01-02-2010 09:11 PM  7 years agoPost 11
WrenFlyer

rrVeteran

Mississippi

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Can they be used with a flybar?
No, they can not.

Manual: http://www.skookumrobotics.com/down..._Manual_110.pdf

Mr. Haney

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01-02-2010 09:12 PM  7 years agoPost 12
ttsingram

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Lincoln, Ne

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Thanks, looks like the Co Pilot's back on the table again.

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01-02-2010 09:19 PM  7 years agoPost 13
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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I use Helicommand 3A on my large machines (non-scale) and it is really great. I don't use the built in gyro for HH, but still use an external HH gyro.The fact that I can vary the HC gain while flying, from 0 to 100% is a real plus for me. I always takeoff with zero gain to make sure the heli is working correctly and the HC isn't correcting for a problem in my setup. I also land with zero gain, just habit.
Paul

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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01-03-2010 02:57 AM  7 years agoPost 14
wingtip

rrApprentice

Indiana

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[quote] It still shows all the tendencies it is supposed to get rid of, like pitch up in FF, pitch down when in BF, doing funnels with it is just plain scary... I didn't even bother going upside down...quote]

i think that shows why you disagree with the hc and why you get such crappy results... the original poster is putting it in a scale huey, not a friggin 3d machine to do funnels.

many of us with "heavy" multibladed birds have terrific experiences with the hc... Im talking 30+ lb birds with 3 or 4 bladed heads or more... Like i said... flying a 4 bladed head on our apaches with no assist was a nightmare to fly and is actually one of the reasons why i got rid of mine... after we installed the hc it was like flying a raptor 30.... i dont care how much you disagree with it but in our application, and as a few others have stated, it does a major improvement... whether or not the other brands do the same or better job i cant say, ive only used the hc. and we dont use the rudder gyro on it.. 401's, plain and simple and easy and takes up very little space...

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01-03-2010 04:35 AM  7 years agoPost 15
SkySurfer

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usa

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01-03-2010 04:48 AM  7 years agoPost 16
MiniBichus

rrNovice

Orlando, FL

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I'll chose to disagree but if you had good results with HCR then thats great.

G.

EDIT: BTW, why not use the HC tail gyro, isn't it great? Wait a minute, you're using a real tail gyro like a 401? Isn't that b/c the HC tail gyro is no good? Let me tell you: all the three gyros inside the HC unit are the same piezogyro from the late 90s. I didn't trust my 500 size scale machine to it, I sure as heck would't trust a 10k scale machine to it at all... but its your buck its your wallet.

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01-03-2010 03:05 PM  7 years agoPost 17
Hoverup

rrElite Veteran

Golden Gulf Coast - USA

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SkySurfer - The KDS Flymentor is a sabilization system that I have only seen used on flybarred helis. As such it may not be a good choice for scale fbless helis. I have one that I plan to try on a multi-bladed test bed heli, but my expectations are not high for success.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
LSF 853
Major USAF
Retired

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01-03-2010 03:29 PM  7 years agoPost 18
wingtip

rrApprentice

Indiana

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minibichus,

the hc has a new miniature version thats soon to be released and resembled the new one from skookum (720 i think it was called) that was shown at ircha... its the size of a thumbdrive and will also be the reciever as well...

bash the hc all you want... many a scaler like us wont hesitate risking our expensive birds with the current hc rigid units cause we arent flying like youve already established, that your doing funnels with yours.. this is a scale forum and ive not seen to many $10k+ scalers doing funnels and stick banging..

sorry you didnt have luck with it but theres nothing wrong if he chooses one for his huey project, ESPECIALLY if he gets the new version with the smaller size, built in 2.4 rx, and the newer gyros ... Im sure he probably wont be 3d'ing it.

as for the co pilot, ive not used one myself but have been told by several people that have used them they are to unpredictable on the way they sense and calculate level... when in horizon mode it has to be a certain light condition to be able to see the horizon that cloudy days or even to sunny days cause issues... not to mention no late evening flights or early morning flights... i wanna fly when i want to fly... and as for the heat sensing mode i agree with christopher that might be a issue inside a fuse...
if you were to go this route i'd make sure you can have a switch dedicated to disabling the unit at a moments notice and hope your flying skills are adequate to recover.. just in case.

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01-03-2010 07:19 PM  7 years agoPost 19
HS10

rrApprentice

Elk River, MN

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Hi Folks

If have a FMA Co-Pilot, and it works as advertised... Works great at low level if you have clear and level 360 degree reference... Need to calibrate accurately...

I also have a Helicommand Rigid, and it works better then I anticipated...

I am a fan of the Helicommand system at this point... I am building my first 5 bladed scale rotor head (MH-6 Little Bird) and just finished the phasing last night...

One scale advantage of the Helicommand Rigid is the you can do "phase timing" electronically... Initial "phase timing" took just minutes...

For myself the Helicommand helps provide slow stable scale-like flight characteristics... I really like my HC...

Have not personally used other systems so I can't comment on them...

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired

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01-04-2010 07:08 AM  7 years agoPost 20
MiniBichus

rrNovice

Orlando, FL

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Not bashing, stating what happened to me.

I like doing what the real helicopter does, for example, the TOW Defender can do loops, rolls and nose-down funnels and so does the Apache, in fact most full size helicopters with a rigid rotor head can do almost anything besides flying upside down, for example the BO-105 or the Gazelle..., and if you want to see a TOW Defender doing crazy stunts, watch the movie Firebirds.

As far as stabilization systems I've have tried three systems: V-bar, SK-360 and Helicommand Rigid, and only the last two on my own machine but the V-bar I tried on a fellow pilot machine. Best for 3D? IMO its the 3 axis V-bar b/c it takes care of the biggest SK-360 weakness: (2 axis vs. 3 axis) piro/cyclic can be problematic on it. Best for scale? SK-360, its a lot cheaper and so you can run a separate cheap tail gyro and not break the bank, and for scale piro precision is not as important, so the SK-360 is a good price/performance for scale and it also can be dialed as slow as you want or as fast as you can handle it. It is nearly immune to vibrations and it doesn't drift + it gets rid of all the tendencies of your flybarless helicopter, basically your helicopter flies on rails. (like V-bar) BTW, if you think Helicommand is nice for allowing electronic phasing, then Skookum 360 can do that too, but up to 90 degree phasing as opposed to just 45 on HCR. I would like to suggest that if you could try the SK-360, and give it an honest shot I am pretty sure you're going to like it a lot.

Cheers.

G.

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