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› Beginner/intermidiate/advanced?
12-29-2009 11:31 PM  7 years agoPost 1
Heli_KV

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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We often operate terms: beginner or intermediate or pro pilot. But what is these terms? What's the criteria?

Please express your oppinions. And rate yourself if you wish.

I think I am beginner, maybe intermediate, because I do not do 3D stuff in classical difinition. Sport flying at best. Actually I do not know, because I do not fly with other people, so hard to compare and to rate.

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12-29-2009 11:35 PM  7 years agoPost 2
J_Cunny

rrVeteran

Austin, Texas

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I suck bad. Crashed two of my 450's within 30 minutes. Tool cold, and I should have never flown with the sun so low!!!

I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....

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12-29-2009 11:41 PM  7 years agoPost 3
Hellsiege

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs, CO

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Everyone will have a different opinion on this I bet, but here's my thoughts:

Beginner: Hovering ----> Hovering in all orientations

Intermediate: Sport flying (8's, loops, rolls etc..) -----> 3d

Pro: Stick banging 3d, IMAC sequences, etc....

I consider myself intermediate (youtube.com/siege22)

My $.02

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12-30-2009 12:33 AM  7 years agoPost 4
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I disagree with labeling in general. Because these days to label you have to know there 3D capabilities? WTF what is 3D anyway my favorite maneuver is a pirouetting full power climbout into a flip or loop. Is that 3D? I dont know cause 3D is now a generalized term.

My point is labeling someones flying skills sucks. I used to fly pattern competitions in planes as a kid 25 years ago. It had a specific breakdown AKA a pattern of maneuvers to label a pilot beginner intermediate and expert. But I would fly beginner cause it was easier to win until you win too many and they bump you up. But as I said it was regulated and someone would let you know your skill level. But you were judged on EVERYTHING from takeoff to landing and everything in between.

So to label yourself you would have to start flying the heli circuit to find out what your skill level really is.

I go to the e-fest in champagne all the 3d pilots show up and its amazing how many cant sit a 450 heli down soft just slamming them to the ground when they finish.

You can also look at the side of the box it says for expert pilots does flying it make you an expert?

IMO if you can grab someone help them setup there heli and get them hovering your past expert your an Instructor.

Oh and lets not forget the scale guy's they setup there heli to fly flawlessly just plain circuits as smooth as butter now that takes skill but there not expert cause they dont or cant do 3d?

3D Stickbanging is so mainstream it's unfortunately become what the hobby is gauged against.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 12:44 AM  7 years agoPost 5
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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here ya go page 5 is pretty much where it starts.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/...chelicopter.pdf

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 12:52 AM  7 years agoPost 6
stocky

rrKey Veteran

Taxachusetts

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I suck bad. Crashed two of my 450's within 30 minutes. Tool cold, and I should have never flown with the sun so low!!!
Wow never would have expected to crash twice because my Tool was cold, Thanks for the heads up.

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12-30-2009 01:05 AM  7 years agoPost 7
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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Great catch stocky!!!

Guess his stick froze and couldn't get any output from it.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 01:13 AM  7 years agoPost 8
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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I disagree with labeling in general.
I agree. Inverably there are missunderstandings about the meanings and assumptions of deception. However, there is a need to convey the skill level of a pilot using words for various reasons that cannot be avoided.

I prefer:

+ Complete Noob: Tail in hover
+ Novice: Hover in all orientations except nose-in. Some FF.
+ Sport Flier: Hover in all orientations, including nose-in. Forward flight and smooth controlled figure 8s and circles. Flips, roles.
+ Intermediate: Sport flier plus, mastery of backward flight both upright and inverted. Hurricanes, funnels, tic tocs.
+ Expert: Intermediate plus piro flips, and everything else. Plus the ability to combine all moves into routine, as well as create new moves that displays an individual style. No copy cats allowed.

I prefer not to use "3d" as it describes a flying style not a skill level. For example, I've seen guy who can do tic tocks all day long. Even a little inverted. But cannot do nose-in hovering or smooth slow figure 8s. Though he might classify himself as a 3d pilot, I would say that he is between novice and sport flier.

I also prefer not to use the term "pro" as in my view, you are a pro if you are getting paid or compensated for flying. Again, this is not a skill rating. There are some team pilots that recieve compensation for flying brand-X heli, but cannot do classic 3d moves. Again, not a skill level, but a different designation.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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12-30-2009 01:23 AM  7 years agoPost 9
stocky

rrKey Veteran

Taxachusetts

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I think it has a lot to do with your (or others) perspective.
I would rate myself as little more than a beginner, intermediate at a push, but when non heli folk come over to talk to us at the park, inevitably their comments are "you guys are awesome, how long did it take to become such experts at flying?"
They are of course basing their rating of us having never seen the "pro's" in action.

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12-30-2009 01:26 AM  7 years agoPost 10
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I've seen guy who can do tic tocks all day long. Even a little inverted. But cannot do nose-in hovering or smooth slow figure 8s. Though he might classify himself as a 3d pilot, I would say that he is between novice and sport flier.
My point exactly greg but now did you just come up with all those skill levels by maneuver on your own? That would only confuse the labeling even moreso especially if everyone was to do the same. Which is what happened to the title 3D.
+ Sport Flier: Hover in all orientations, including nose-in. Forward flight and smooth controlled figure 8s and circles. Flips, roles.
OK Now my skill level is weak. But I dont care I enjoy what I do and my crash cost this summer were absolutely none. With many many flights and 4 gallons of fuel.

Oh and greg where would I fall in your categorizing? I Can hover all orientations FF FFF smooth figure 8's and circles Flips but never rolled or roles as you put it.

So Am I a novice, Novice with sport flier, or sport flier?

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 01:37 AM  7 years agoPost 11
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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You know I also ride a big fancy Harley but rode all other brands of bikes before that honda kawasaki suzuki yamaha.

And as we say in the Biker world it's not what you ride it's that you ride.

same goes here. I fly planes with plane people and helis with heli people.

We got a problem at our field because we have all varieties of skill levels and some people are intimidated flying with better pilots. I am way more skilled with my planes than helis. I am a club instructor with planes and helis since I am the only accomplished actual CP heli flier in the club. But I break the Ice by telling them its just you and your plane or heli anyone can take them way up in the air and wiggle the sticks around and get away with it. So in a club situation think about what your doing by labeling.

Dont we teach kids not to segregate or discriminate? Now we are doing it.

I got respect for Greg flying only electric HeliKV for only flying micro's. Cause you do it.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 01:40 AM  7 years agoPost 12
MMike

rrElite Veteran

Holland,Mi-USA

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how long did it take to become such experts at flying?"
I get this from my neighbors.

They don't know I suck at this.

When I land they say, "Oh look, landing is real hard to do!"

Fun thread!!

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12-30-2009 01:45 AM  7 years agoPost 13
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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MMike you should see the looks I get with the raptor doing a pirouetting hard climbout with a loop at the top.

People just look and assume it went out of control and say they didnt realize a helicopter could do that. Well maybe because in real life they cant?

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 02:23 AM  7 years agoPost 14
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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My point exactly greg but now did you just come up with all those skill levels by maneuver on your own?
Though I did write those from memory, its a composite of skill definitions from a number of different sources.
Oh and greg where would I fall in your categorizing? I Can hover all orientations FF FFF smooth figure 8's and circles Flips but never rolled or roles as you put it.
Its a rough aproximation since a rigid definition would take all the fun out of it.
So in a club situation think about what your doing by labeling.

Dont we teach kids not to segregate or discriminate? Now we are doing it.
As I said, I hate to use labels and only do so when words are all I have, like here in a forum. At the field, there's really no point in using labels. Everyone gets to see everyone else fly so they can apply thier own definitions to what they witnessed. I occassionaly use a label to describe myself when a vistor shows up at the field and has lots of questions. Usually they like to know how long you've been flying and where you "rank". Generally I try to avoid direct answers to those questions because what they are really asking is "how long will it take for me to get as good as you?" There's no way to answer that. But I do share how long I've been flying and how I feel I'm doing against my goals.
We got a problem at our field because we have all varieties of skill levels and some people are intimidated flying with better pilots.
That's sad to hear. But I know how that can happen. At our field, we have some excellent pilots and I am by far, low on the totem pole. But there are guys that show up and hover a whole tank tail-in or nose-in. Or some guys that show up and fly slow and scale, even on pod and booms. Even those guys impress me and are fun to watch. Everyone is pushing themselves, enjoying the sport and progressing at thier own pace. I try to remember how I feel about those guys when I step up to the flight line with a row of lawn chairs behind me.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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12-30-2009 03:21 AM  7 years agoPost 15
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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When people ask me I tell them I am a beginner and still got a lot to learn. But those who watch me fly know better.

GREG Like you said on here sure you gotta use a word to define your abilities when needed or if needed?

But in real life its all about pee-nus envy mine is bigger than yours type of thing.

Dont take this personally.
Do you need to tell people your a better pilot than me cause you can do more than me? I bet I can flip hover and basic flying just as good as you. I just haven't invested the time it takes to do more maneuvers. So just simply the fact you can do things I havent done makes you better than me?

Am I better than you cause I got as far as I have without a SIM?

My dad can beat up your dad!!!

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 03:36 AM  7 years agoPost 16
Gregor99

rrElite Veteran

Western Wa

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My dad can beat up your dad!!!
Luckily, we don't get any of that at our field. Seems like that is more of forum thing. The problem is, there is always someone better than you, and worse than you. So its irrelevent.

What's more impressive is when you see one of your fellow pilots pull off a new move for the first time.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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12-30-2009 03:38 AM  7 years agoPost 17
thrstrmech

rrKey Veteran

CA, USA

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labels suck... just fly the way you want to

be unique!!!

back yard flyer i am, no style, nadda...guess it's cool to see helis do things out of the ordinary, if you're into that kind of flying
scale flying just as cool...

i look at flying helis like riding a motorcycle...with each model it takes time to get use to it, getting a feel for it, learning it's limits and yours as well, above all respect it, cause it ain't a toy. start with one that fits you first, study it, learn about it, get comfortable with it, practice with it before moving on to something else larger/faster...continue learning from it and about it...keep on your toes so to speak!

what kind of flyer am i? good question, dunno, i just fly for fun

converting over to the "Dark Side"...Trex 450 clone...HBK2 still #1

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12-30-2009 03:57 AM  7 years agoPost 18
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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My signature says it all.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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12-30-2009 01:50 PM  7 years agoPost 19
Gyronut

rrProfessor

Martinsville In.

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I progress at my own rate and style and dont want to be pushed in any one direction just because others are.

I admire the 3D Kings but I'm not going to kid myself into believeing I can do it.

Put me down for Intermediate to Advanced....

Rick

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12-30-2009 02:15 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Melnic

rrElite Veteran

Columbia, MD,USA

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I like Gregor99's basic description. It's hard to say you have to do A,B,C and D to qualify for a category though. I also hate the overuse of 3D.

People ask me if I do 3D then I ask them what do they define at 3D?

One think I hate is people who will mostly fly circuits, then do a backflip and never hold inverted will say they are flying "3D". Then proceed to become "instructors" in thier own mind or authorities on all subjects. Not that I see that around here, but on some other forums/threads I attend to.

I guess I'm close to intermediate by that definition which is what I typically classify myself as.

Heli_Kv, your intermediate by most definitions. Your inverted backwards is smoother than mine.

Maybe it's just best to describe what you can do and what you have mastered instead?

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