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HelicopterAirstar Mongoose-Jetcopter-Evolution › head rubber flog out after 4 flights???
12-29-2009 09:04 AM  7 years agoPost 1
plantone

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Perth wa

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Has anyone having this issue with head rubbers i have 2 machines one is nice & tight but the old version mongoose but the other is brand new after changing the head rubbers the head is good & tight but after 4 flights the head is all floppy & the outer head rubber gets pushed out of the plastic cup & ends up in the gap between that cup & the bearing in the blade grip. Can someone measure a new feathering spindle & tell me what the correct lenght of it should be from where the shoulder is maybe mine is to long not allowing the blade grips to close up enough. ????

Also put on a gv1 today set it up to the book set the head speed etc. on a switch & it wont engage in flight ??? i put the red wire to the red wire on the engine kill switch & the black wire to the engine & left the kill switch wire up aswell ?? is this correct or should i take the black wire from the kill switch & earth it ??? i got no instructions for the stator gator.

CHeers wayne

Mongoose
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12-29-2009 02:40 PM  7 years agoPost 2
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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I have a new feathering spindle at home. I will measure it when I get off work if you still need it. I will also check my dampers.

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12-29-2009 02:46 PM  7 years agoPost 3
gian

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AZ

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Are you missing any shims/washers on the outside of the damper? I don't have the manual...

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12-29-2009 09:08 PM  7 years agoPost 4
plantone

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I dont a manual either but my other machinr that is the old style does not have any shims & is tight & firm.????

Mongoose
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12-29-2009 09:42 PM  7 years agoPost 5
gian

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AZ

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Hmmm. Well, we'll wait for BeltFed's measurement. I wouldn't monkey with cutting down the spindle though- shims should do the trick.

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12-29-2009 09:45 PM  7 years agoPost 6
BeltFedBrowning

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Sorry, still at work.

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12-29-2009 09:46 PM  7 years agoPost 7
gian

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Manual:
http://www.airstarintl.com/Videos/M...%2020090202.pdf

Pages 12/13 show the assembly... Tripple-check?

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12-29-2009 10:09 PM  7 years agoPost 8
plantone

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Perth wa

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have just taken apart both the heads i have the old machine has a spindle lenght of 98.65mm from the step shoulder to step shoulder & the brand new heli measures 99.53mm this will explain why the head rubber are not being compressed.

Wayne

Mongoose
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12-29-2009 10:19 PM  7 years agoPost 9
BeltFedBrowning

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Sounds like you need shims!

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12-29-2009 10:29 PM  7 years agoPost 10
plantone

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Perth wa

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i think your right seem i might have a friday afternoon spindle & shims is the only way of correcting this.

Mongoose
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12-30-2009 01:53 AM  7 years agoPost 11
BeltFedBrowning

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mine is a little hard to measure as the step is not defined. The shoulder is more of a slight radius. The radius begins at about 99.53mm and joins the larger part of the shaft at about 98.5mm. I may take the shaft out of my Mongoose to measure it. I may have to chuck this new one in the lathe to define the shoulder before I can use it.

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12-30-2009 10:28 PM  7 years agoPost 12
lrogers

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If you have a newer Mongoose, you need to hook the red to black and black to the red. Weird, but that is how it works.

Larry Rogers - R/C Helicopter Pilot

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12-30-2009 10:58 PM  7 years agoPost 13
plantone

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Perth wa

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thanks irogers i will try that. why not red to red & black to black ???? will it damage the unit or just wont work??? why dont they put the correct fitting on the end of the wires now i have to cut of the fitting to put on spades to fit the airstar fitting thats part of the confusion.

Mongoose
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12-30-2009 11:08 PM  7 years agoPost 14
lrogers

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Make VERY sure you have the right Stator Gator. There is one for the PUH style engine and one for the RC engine that fits right where the the kill button was. The engine spade connectors were a direct fit. The two units ARE NOT interchangeable.

As to why the red-to-black and black-to-red, appearantly, Zenoah switched the polarity on the engines a while back and the SG was not changed. It won't hurt the unit, but it won't work.

With the right SG, this job will take about 5 minutes. Just pry the kill switch out of engine (the hardest part), remove the wires from it, plug the wires into the SG and fit the SG back into the hole the kill switch came out of.

Of course, I had to find all this out the hard when I got the SG the first time.

Larry Rogers - R/C Helicopter Pilot

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12-30-2009 11:14 PM  7 years agoPost 15
plantone

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sorry for the dum question but how do i know which engine i have PUH or RC & the SG i have has the 2 wires with wrong fittings not a plug style that i have seen in pics as a plug & play unit.

Mongoose
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12-30-2009 11:58 PM  7 years agoPost 16
lrogers

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If you got the engine from AIRSTAR and it has the pull start on top and the kill button mounted in the engine cowl, you have the RC engine. The body of the correct Stator Gator will be made so it will plug into the hole vacated by the switch and will have spade connectors. The one for the PUH engine is more flattened and one wire (the black one I think) has an eyelet on the end.

Larry Rogers - R/C Helicopter Pilot

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01-02-2010 04:19 AM  7 years agoPost 17
Outback Jack

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South Australia

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So Wayne, any joy?

After reading your post and studying my head I was left wondering why you are popping the "O" rings, when on mine there is no possible way this could happen.
There is just not enough physical gap to allow it, it's smaller than a bee's dick

So after reading the post from BeltFedBrowning regarding his different spindle, I decided to tear down the head on my brand new, (albeit very old) unflown machine, and with studying the manual and watching the video that Airstar have on assembling rotor heads and checking out pictures of spare parts, I find that Airstar have made small changes here and there.

My head assembly from the rotor head to the end of the spindle is: Rotor head,"o" ring insert, one "O" ring, (this sits slightly proud of the insert) one 0.5mm shim, bearing, dogbone, bearing, shouldered spacer washer, thrust washer, brass spindle washer, bolt.

Checking out the picture of the "O" ring insert, p/n A625 it looks as if they now accommodate two "O"rings. Download the image and clean it up in Photo Editor, it then becomes very obvious.

Where it becomes interesting is that in the Airstar video on head assembly, you can find that on their home page, video section, all the parts are laid out ready for assembly, but it only shows one "O" ring per side, plus the shim/spacer, and although the picture of the spindle in the spare parts list shows the spindle having the shoulder, the one in the video doesn't have one, it apparently is the same as BeltFedBrowning has as his spare.

Incidently BeltFedBrowning, I wouldn't worry about cutting a shoulder on your new spindle, looks as though this is the new part now, but you will need a new pair of thrust washers to suit it.

While I was checking all of this out, I went through the Vario build manual to make comparison. (No, I don't have a Vario, just the manual) Although their manual only shows drawings, the shaft isn't shown as having a shoulder, and they use only one "O" ring per side, plus shim/s.
The description on their page was for plastic blade grips and I also don't know how old or up to date that manual is.

So what else have I picked up?
My Mongoose only has one 3x6mm bolt on the opposing side from the blade holder arm, the manual shows two 3x8mm bolts to be used with 0.8mm spacers under them, the spacers are also shown as being used under the bolts retaining the blade holder arm.

The picture of the rotor head block assembled on page 12/28 shows two "O" rings fitted up with the outside pair hanging right out in the breeze. There's better pictures of it on page 33/85 of the original draft copy of the manual.
No shim used, just the outside "O" ring sitting against the bearing.

Now, here's a trap for young players, the dog bone has also been upgraded/redesigned. In the manual available from Airstar, the dogbone has an arrow in the centre that faces toward the head block. In the original draft copy, it's a different dogbone in that the inner walls are not tapered to the centre but cut straight and instead of an arrow indicating which way they should be, there's a very small "dot" to indicate that this end faces the rotor block. If you didn't know what to look for you could easily overlook this.

While the dogbone appear to be drilled symmetrically, this is not the case. There is a difference of about 0.3mm times two makes a difference of 0.6mm which reflects on the gap between the blade holders and the head block, fitting them the wrong way would move the blade holders toward the centre.

There is another possible explanation however.
On my model, I mentioned earlier that I only have one bolt on the opposite side of the blade holder arm. So if only one hole is needed on that side, why go to the time, trouble and expense of drilling and tapping an unneeded hole? However, if during assembly you fitted the dogbone the wrong way, when you come to fit the bolt on the opposite side, there's no threaded hole in the dogbone, it's down at the other end.

So measurements:
My spindle shaft is 125.00mm OAL WITH the retaining bolts fitted.
The bolt heads are 5.00mm long.
The OD of the shaft is 8.00mm. which steps down to 7.00mm at the ends.
The step is 5.0mm in from the shaft end.

The complete "bearing pack" ie. spindle washer, thrust washer assy, shoulder washer, both bearings, dog bone AND shim, measure 35.11mm.
The "O" rings are 2.70mm thick, (measured on the shaft) and once again, I only have one per side.
I can only fit one "O" ring in my "O" ring insert, a second one fitted would only crush up and pop out.

Those figures might be a Gnat's knob out, I'm using a digital caliper that didn't cost a whole lot of money, but use them as an "exact-approximate" pretty good ball park figures.

What we all have to realise is that until recently, If you wanted an Airstar Mongoose, you bought it already built.

So since it's obviously had modifications/changes before that time, it didn't matter to Airstar as they were fully up to speed on them.

We aren't though, so let's start talking about them and comparing notes.
So everybody, If you haven't already downloaded a copy of the Manual from Airstar, go get it. The link is in this thread, good work Gian.

If you want a copy of the original draft, and I really do recommend you all get it, 85 pages with more and bigger better pictures go here, and thank you kindly David, it's toward the bottom on the first page:
http://www.scalereplica.com/
Sure, there's a bit of difference in them, go find it and let's get this page moving.

Wayne, a bit more about the Stator Gator for you.
No, you won't hurt it if you plug it in wrong, there are no direct electrical connections inside of it, it's Opto-electric BUT, you've already been told that it must be for the Zenoah RC (Race car?) engine, not the PUH (Power unit Helicopter).

The reason for that is the motors work on different voltages, so if your stuck and you really want to get it going, you could probably swap out the coils from a PUH into your motor. I'm not saying this would work, but leaves you with an option to check out.
Seems like a lot of work to me though and myself, I'd be buying one to suit.

Also for the GV-1 to see or operate with the Stator Gator, you have to adjust your end points on your throttle servo to 140/140 or some such thing. I don't have one on mine as yet, I just saw mention of it when I did a search and you'll have to get the guts on that yourself from someone that knows.

Now here's some real bad news for you.
If you do a search on RR for Stator Gator, you get eighteen pages of threads to read through, and that's just in the Gasser section. Do the same in the Vario page, and there's even more.

Buying something with no instructions kinda sucks, where did you buy it from?
Mate, get on the phone and ring them up in the States for your own peace of mind.

Another suggestion. Start a new thread on this page with the topic "Stator Gator"
Reason? Anyone who is not interested on how your "O" rings are squashing out, won't read past the first post, starting a new topic may bring on board the man with the answers.
Also post the same topic in the Gasser section and Vario section.
Someone out there will know.

Don't forget to keep us in the loop, we all want to know what's causing this problem for you.
Good luck with it.
Cheers,

Chris

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01-02-2010 01:59 PM  7 years agoPost 18
lrogers

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Good write up Chris. Question for you though. What Radio are you using? I have a Futaba 12z and I didn't have to go 140/140 on my endpoint settings. As I read it, I only needed to be above 50/50. I think mine are are set like 69/67 and the Gv-1 functions fine. I did have tweek the throttle arm a slight bit, but throttle responce was better after I got the mechanical set up more symeterical.

One other mod I made while I was adding the Stator-Gator, GV-1 and adjusting the throttle arm was to cut an access for the stater handle in the canopy. No more popping the canopy off to start. Mod took about 30 minutes start-to-finish and was inspired by pictures I saw of the Vario Benzine Acrobat. I lined the opeing with split fuel tubing for a more finished look. This is a lot more convient and doesn't detract from the looks while in the air.

Larry Rogers - R/C Helicopter Pilot

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01-02-2010 04:20 PM  7 years agoPost 19
Outback Jack

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South Australia

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Hey there Larry.

Thank you for your kind words, I spent a couple of days on that and I might just finish up spending a couple more.
I was re-assembling the blade grips just on to the spindle rod to take a few more measurements and noticed a speck of crap inside the blade grip, so I wiped it out and didn't put any grease back in it.

I didn't do it up truck driver tight or farmer tight, just nipped it kinda firm I thought.
Yeah right, now I can't get the guts out of one of that blade grip, I'm gunna have to warm her up a bit.
Quite frustrating.

I have two JR9303's one brand new and one second hand, that I'm putting on XPS 2.4 but the Tx's and Rx's need to go back to the US for upgrading first. At the moment I'm still puttering around with a Futaba 9C that I picked up in a deal with a Raptor.

I'm yet to enjoy all the delights of having to install a GV-1.
I'm having a hard enough time trying to program my VCR.

Yep! I've seen a picture of your canopy mod, and I didn't find it in your gallery either. I won't be cutting mine, I'm dangerous with power tools, plus there's hands shaking and the whisky thing to deal with.

Now, let me see, where did I park Larry Rogers...Hmm..Yep!..Got it!

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/...rs_Mongoose.jpg

Cheers,

Chris

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01-02-2010 04:41 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Outback Jack

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Hmmm!

It would also appear that after I learn to program my Tx, GV-1, gyro and my VCR correctly, I need to read up on the photo posting page.

It was my first attempt at posting a picture.
I might not be very clever with electronics, but boy, can I lift heavy stuff!

Cheers,

Chris

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HelicopterAirstar Mongoose-Jetcopter-Evolution › head rubber flog out after 4 flights???
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