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HelicopterMain Discussion › RunOunt help again please
12-29-2009 04:49 AM  7 years agoPost 1
wifeorheli

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reno, nevada usa

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hey guys ive been helped with this prob many times but i just dont get it where do i put the indacator?

Photo1

here i get about .003 1/2

photo2

here i get about .016

whats the easiest way and fix to do this Photo 1 or 2?The fan threads directly onto the shaft. and what to do next?

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12-29-2009 05:00 AM  7 years agoPost 2
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Aren't you the Dude that wanted the fan drawn up?

The hub in the pictures is Fubar'ed and can't be fixed. A fan that screws on like this one needs to be done right to start with. My advice would be to jack up the blades on that Frenzy and slide something better underneath but thats me. How much pain are you willing to endure?

There is always the possibility that you could machine the threads out and install it like a more traditional fan hub and then dial indicate the hub but IMHO, that would require some experience to get it done to the level that you need to smooth the machine out.

TM

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12-29-2009 05:07 AM  7 years agoPost 3
wifeorheli

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reno, nevada usa

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hey moore yea was gonna get a fan drawn up and get it machined to fix this prob.this is my second fan here and still bad. My main blades? Some guys are fixin them but dont know what way to put the indacator.

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12-29-2009 05:10 AM  7 years agoPost 4
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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It is not a matter of where to put the indicator or what to indicate. With that much runout you can't fix it other than to do it over or insert a new section in the hub and machine the threads concentric to the fun hub OD and square to the face of the hub.

Unless the crank is bent and that is not really indicated by the face runout as it would be more if it were, this hub is the issue.

TM

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12-29-2009 05:17 AM  7 years agoPost 5
wifeorheli

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reno, nevada usa

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i guess guys are sanding it down where the hub meets the motor so it will kinda tilt. But dont know which measurement to use top or side of hub

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12-29-2009 05:28 AM  7 years agoPost 6
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Since the engine rotates at 17K or better which runout reading that you have currently measured can cause the most damage when the engine rotates? The face runout or the OD runout?

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12-29-2009 05:38 AM  7 years agoPost 7
wifeorheli

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reno, nevada usa

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I would assume the outer lol

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12-29-2009 05:43 AM  7 years agoPost 8
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Good assumption. Now we can think about what it is going to take to fix it. Some of the suggestions that you read in other posts won't correct the problem if the tapped hole is not tapped concentric to the OD and parallel to the axis of rotation. You can sand on the bottom of the fan hub opposite the high spot on the OD all you want and you will not be able to correct the problem because there is not enough latitude for lateral motion in relation to the tapped hole.

Measure the runout at the base of the fan and tell us what it is.

TM

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12-29-2009 09:05 PM  7 years agoPost 9
SuperSixTwo

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Virginia City, NV ---USA

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Using method in photo 2, measure the crank first. Half a thou on that indicator is the most you should have. ( So i have been told, truth or not i dunno)

After that, mount the fan. Screw it down tight. Check runout again at the base. And again at the top, as your photo2 has it.
With that indicator, less is better. Get over .005 and its going to vibrate.

On your assumtion, the face is needed to be square to the crank to. If its not, your clutch is going to do the tilt-o-whirl in the clutch hub, and vibrate.

You could drill out the threads and turn a taper into it, IF there is enough material in the fan to do so.

If you wanna try it, i have some of the conical shims from an MA bird. pm me or call me and bring it over. I'll fire up the dragon heater in the garage, and we will turn it. Even if we trash it, you wont be worse off than you are now.

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12-30-2009 12:02 AM  7 years agoPost 10
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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If you wanna try it, i have some of the conical shims from an MA bird.
.

The conical shims will not work with the TZ fan hub. I have a TZv2 90 and am getting ready to install the fan and clutch.
I'm gonna check the stock TZ hub for runout and see how it is.
I'm sure I can use the MA cnc fan with conical shims, but the problem here is the MA fan/clutch hub is shorter than the TZ fan/clutch hub.
It will require extra shimming with the MA fan to get the clutch shoe up into the bell. I'm hoping I'll get lucky and won't have to do any hub mods to the stock TZ and just go with that.
My cnc MA fan is sounding very tempting. The indicator will make the final decision.

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12-30-2009 01:09 AM  7 years agoPost 11
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Why Not

Face it, bore it, and shrink a sleeve to size ///??

greyeagle

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12-30-2009 01:22 AM  7 years agoPost 12
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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Why Not

Face it, bore it, and shrink a sleeve to size ///??
IMO, too much work to install a fan hub. Especially being that most people don't have the machinery to perform modifications as you mentioned.
Also IMO is that any heli should go together relatively easy without any major modifications to complete the build.

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12-30-2009 03:03 AM  7 years agoPost 13
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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I'm not familiar with this fan/heli combo but if the fan threads on and runs out .016" I'm betting the engine crank is bent.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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12-30-2009 05:08 AM  7 years agoPost 14
SuperSixTwo

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Virginia City, NV ---USA

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^^^ that or the cnc operator, drilling and tapping the hub didnt see them sitting at an angle in the fixture.

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12-30-2009 05:46 AM  7 years agoPost 15
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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^^^ that or the cnc operator, drilling and tapping the hub didnt see them sitting at an angle in the fixture.
I doubt these parts were machined in any sort of fixture other than a collet nose on a CNC turning center. The hubs are made from bar stock and machined in one setup on a subspindle machine to save time. The drilling and tapping of the M3 holes were done on the OP10 side most likely and the backside was finished in the subspindle on OP20 and dropped to a parts conveyor. Something got screwed up during machining. If the subspindle doesn't run concentric to the main this is most likely the case. I see this a lot in the field where customers crash their machines and don't tell anyone until it has quality control issues.

TM

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12-30-2009 08:18 AM  7 years agoPost 16
Damper

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Point Blank TX USA

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I would also check the I.D. Runout to see if OD is running concentric with other. If not and that is plastic fan it was not cut right and u can machine it to run true with ID. If the T.I.R. is running about the same then something is not aligning up.

Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking

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12-30-2009 09:44 AM  7 years agoPost 17
Mike0251

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Hills of the Blue Ridge VA

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Edit-SteveH has already chimed in. Get them to send another new fan.
Edit²-I spent a few minutes researching and contemplating as well. May not like what I have to say but its only my humble opinion. From another thread I had found SteveH also had the same problem. Amain Hobbies is the importer of this kit and it looks to be very cheap in price at around $200>. I would ask them to send yet another hub. If they won't or if they do and the new hub is out as well you may want to consider just getting another heli kit of a different brand. The pain and anguish associated with this bird far exceeds the $200. If I model you up a fan as discussed in another thread that is going to cost you some $ to have manufactured, unless you have a friend on the inside. Then too the end product will only be as good as the machinist that has made it. That too is no guarantee that it will be spot on. There are several used Hirobo Evo 50's for sale on the board right now, you would be soooooo much happier. Again just my humble opinion...there is only so much time, effort, and anguish that I myself will put into fixing someones elses piss poor design.
ps. if you go the route of another bird then sell your frame for parts here on RR and recoup some of the $, the anguish can be smoothed away by any good 18 year old scotch

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12-30-2009 10:17 AM  7 years agoPost 18
Jim-bob

rrApprentice

Little Hocking OH USA

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My advice would be to jack up the blades on that Frenzy and slide something better underneath

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12-30-2009 10:31 AM  7 years agoPost 19
S Bell

rrApprentice

Nova Scotia Canada

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wifeorheli,

Maybe I can help. First check the crankshaft for acceptable runout. If good or within a couple of thou the fan can be reworked by hand.

You'll need a flat surface and sand paper, say a small thick 6 inch square plate glass. I've used a flat counter top with good luck. Mark the high spot on the top fan hub surface making sure it is opposite the high spot on the side of the fan hub. This tells you the fan is canted and can be reworked easily.

If the above holds correct lap the bottom of the fan gradually in a corrective slanted manner checking on the engine from time to time. When you have the correct amount removed at the selected area it should fit much better. If it's toasted now you have nothing to loose.

The other alternative is to lap a small washer in a slanted manner and use it under the fan, however it may be tedious rotating it to the correct point .16 thou is a lot but the distance from the front engine bearing magnifies the error. If the fan threads and seating hole are really tight it may not work to the degree you need. I'd give it a shot though. What do you have to loose but another 10 bucks for a new fan?

Stephen

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12-30-2009 11:55 AM  7 years agoPost 20
Mike0251

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Hills of the Blue Ridge VA

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Or just take that one to the machine shop and have them true it up by removing a thou or so on the od and the face.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › RunOunt help again please
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