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HelicopterOutrage 50-90-Nitro › Velocity Head Ripped itself apart in flight :(
12-30-2009 02:16 AM  7 years agoPost 41
aussie_g

rrVeteran

Travelers Rest, South Carolina, USA

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well there is a lot of interesting stuff in this post....

I agree with QuantumPSI that there is not as much 'Beef' in the head of the velocity compared to some models.
Also, if you fly a velocity then a model with more 'beef' you can feel it.

So my point in a nutshell....

There is less 'Beef' in the head.
And if I need to eat chicken to perform better - then I will.

Gareth

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12-30-2009 02:34 AM  7 years agoPost 42
theflyingman2

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Winter Haven, FL USA

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I agree with QuantumPSI that there is not as much 'Beef' in the head of the velocity compared to some models.
Also, if you fly a velocity then a model with more 'beef' you can feel it.

So my point in a nutshell....

There is less 'Beef' in the head.
And if I need to eat chicken to perform better - then I will.
I fully agree!!

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12-30-2009 03:53 AM  7 years agoPost 43
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of flying a velocity, but they look good in the air. For me, I don't mind the REST of the helicopter not having much beef (as long as it holds together in flight), but the head and tail are two spots that I will GLADLY take a weight penalty on.

Just wanted to add that is all...

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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12-30-2009 01:18 PM  7 years agoPost 44
John Benario

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Las Vegas

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It is amazing how one off the cuff comment on RR has the potential to become fact.

There is no pot metal on the Outrage, and there is no pot metal in the Align kits as the last comment implies.

No cast part is going to have the fit needed for any part in a helicopter.

I guess one could imply that OS engine crankcases are pot metal too since they start their life as a casting.

John Benario

Team highest quality
Futaba radios
Cool Power fuel
John's Ultimate building school

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12-30-2009 01:33 PM  7 years agoPost 45
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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No cast part is going to have the fit needed for any part in a helicopter.
That is a strange statement. Secondary machining makes the part fit perfectly. The whole point of casting parts is to get it as near finished as possible at the pour. Typically cast parts have close tolerance features machined afterword. The less machining required, the lower the cost.

All this concern about "pot" metal. Look at all the plastic parts that hold up quite well in the non "SE" versions of so many helicopters. When people upgrade to metal parts, what do you see in there parts bins? Unbroken, perfectly good plastic parts.

My point is there is much more to design than the material itself. Could be not enough material for the loads. Could be interference created by poor designed in geometry.

I don't own this helicopter and have no comment specifically on it. I'm just saying it's more complicated than just materials.

Hey if this ends up being a one time event does that make this head bad? Look at all the Trex's falling out of the sky due to links and clutches.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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12-30-2009 04:33 PM  7 years agoPost 46
aussie_g

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Travelers Rest, South Carolina, USA

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There is no doubt in my mind that the head can hold up.

I have seen Henry Caldwell put about as much abuse on a machine in one day as I might do in a year.

But I think the whole point of the post is that the head is lighter weight, and if you have binding during flight you can have some issues.

I know the head will not fall apart on its own, I have enough flights on mine to be sure of that.
And I am still flying the same head from my first release kit - which does not have the updated head block & seasaw like the newer kits.

Gareth

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12-30-2009 04:44 PM  7 years agoPost 47
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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holds up to me ok. and I planted mine pretty badly and no head damage with all the original parts no new parts..

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12-30-2009 04:56 PM  7 years agoPost 48
FlytilyaDrop

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Playboy mansion

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I was thinking it would be cool to have a device that would measure the stress put on heli parts under full load.

Kinda like the wind tunnel used to check wind flow over a particular item and it show on a computer screen things that could be fixed causing problems, to be able to pinpoint stress points would be great in helping beef up areas that get the high vibrations and stresses.

If you think of it, it would be a great safety measure as I for one would not want a rotor head to break apart in front of me.

Even at 20 to 30 feet out a blade coming off would be like a arrow coming straight at you.

This hobby sucks, when your not flying.

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12-30-2009 05:23 PM  7 years agoPost 49
kazager

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Waldorf, MD - USA

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It doesn't matter how it holds up in a crash, the question is whether it's sufficiently strong to withstand the maximum force it is subject to in flight. Flight experience with the heli, not mine only but everyones, would tell us that it is. Specifically on the flybar cage, I'm not really seeing where there is much force on the cage at all in normal operation. The links on the head were notched indicating contact with the headblock. So we can all get defensive about our position and building ability, but I thought the purpose of the post was to 1)share personal experience, and 2)help identify the cause, and maybe find a correction. If the link was rubbing, then it is not the fault of the materials construction or the strength of the part. This discussion took a big left turn which isn't helping anyone.

Flying $uck$...All of the money out of my bank account!

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12-30-2009 05:33 PM  7 years agoPost 50
kazager

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Waldorf, MD - USA

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Where is the other flybar control rod? I thought we were seeing both of them but the 4th picture indicates that the cage base didn't break on that side. Why isn't the rod still attached? Did the screw come out?

Flying $uck$...All of the money out of my bank account!

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12-31-2009 03:35 AM  7 years agoPost 51
theflyingman2

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Winter Haven, FL USA

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Well after I took a closer look at everything. the bottom of the head block that we see in the pictures, wiped off. it was some smudge of grease or something. Under that smudge there was slight evidence of rubbing of the ball from the lower mixer arm it looks like. I have had links fall off in flight before (not on this heli) and it never did this (the control that I had, or didn't have after about 2 seconds ). The best way I can think of describing how the head looked in flight was if anyone remembers what happens in realflight g2, or 3 when a heli is sitting on the ground and you apply some head speed, then jam the cyclic 1 direction... the flybar disk goes crazy out of whack. I am going to first rebuild (parts should be here tomorrow) with the quick UK links i have on there now. to see if i was binding.. if I am I will adjust my swash mixes down so it doesn't bind. Thanks everyone,
I will post back later...

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12-31-2009 03:45 AM  7 years agoPost 52
Foxden

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Port Charlotte, FL. USA

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I have some short quick UK links in the shop and butted a pair up to each other and get 30mm center to center and that is what Steven runs for rod "B" advanced setting in the manual, so I would look to lower the pitch as the Vel is ballistic pulling 630's with only 12.5 degrees of pitch so that could have been what caused the binding.

Please keep us posted on what you find

Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
Team Outrage

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12-31-2009 02:27 PM  7 years agoPost 53
ianthebrave

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scotland

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hi i notice that you had all your settings set to fast response and max movement, did you have the upgraded balls fitted? part number R50N981-ss, i cant tell from the pics but it doesnt look like you have?

below is a description from outrage.
http://www.helidirect.com/Manual/R50N981.pdf

This upgrade for the Velocity 50 gives increased pitch and cyclic travel at the blade grips allowing overall swash plate travel to be slightly decreased. This is useful in that it can minimize the possibility of the flybar cage touching the headblock, leading to flybar cage damage.
Note the balls do come supplied with mounting bolts
It is only necessary to fit these balls if you are using all available swashplate travel and you are looking for the maximum pitch and cyclic ranges possible.
Fitting these balls gives approximately 1.5 degrees additional pitch range. The ‘zero pitch’ point does not change – you simply need to reduce your ‘swash menu’ percentages in the radio.

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12-31-2009 02:47 PM  7 years agoPost 54
John Benario

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Las Vegas

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The same effect can be achieved by flipping the mixing lever over so the boss is outside and putting the Bell ball on the inside and the Hiller ball on the outside.

John Benario

Team highest quality
Futaba radios
Cool Power fuel
John's Ultimate building school

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12-31-2009 05:25 PM  7 years agoPost 55
theflyingman2

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Winter Haven, FL USA

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hi i notice that you had all your settings set to fast response and max movement, did you have the upgraded balls fitted? part number R50N981-ss, i cant tell from the pics but it doesnt look like you have?
hi, I do have the upgrade kit.... in my box.. i had not fitted them on the head yet... they are on there now. my new flybar cage should be here within a few hours.

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01-01-2010 03:51 PM  7 years agoPost 56
CoronaL

rrKey Veteran

Winnebago IL

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I've had binding on my head that initially I overlooked when I was setting max pitches

However, if you rotate the disk on the bench, you will find a spot that you will hit with either full aileron or elev, or esp when mixing both in the corner. When having the blades at 90 or inline with the heli, the links would clear, but as the head rotated, the binding would occur. I go back to my TREX700 setup as it would do something similar, but in a different spot on the head.

Anyway, I like to rotate the disk on the bench to confirm no binding and make sure there is good clearance . Not just static testing

Randy!!! I am the liquor

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01-04-2010 03:49 AM  7 years agoPost 57
theflyingman2

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Winter Haven, FL USA

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I got the parts. and set it all up.. i discovered that something had changed in flight. my pitch curves without changing anything were 0 - 18.5... im not sure how that happened.. I made all new links for the head. and now I got 0 in the middle and +-13 it is flying great now. I don't have any binding anywhere.. even with pitch and cyclic extreams together. Im just glad it is fixed now. thanks everyone!!!!

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01-04-2010 04:39 AM  7 years agoPost 58
FlytilyaDrop

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Playboy mansion

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Good to hear that is all good, I will remember the 13 deg pitch and shoot for that amount myself sense that is what your getting without binding.

Great thread.

This hobby sucks, when your not flying.

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01-04-2010 11:37 AM  7 years agoPost 59
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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I noticed yesterday during a preflight that my flybar carriage has hairline cracks in the same places that yours broke! This was undoubtedly caused my the links hitting the headblock because the links were notched badly. I have reduced my swash travel to avoid binding and I will be replacing the carriage before flying again.

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01-04-2010 02:22 PM  7 years agoPost 60
Foxden

rrElite Veteran

Port Charlotte, FL. USA

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Good catch Darren,

Guys an easy fix is to pick up the upgrade ball for the pitch arm or simply use a spacer and longer 2mm bolt with a nut, this allows you to dial back the throws in the radio and still achive the pitch your looking for, there cheap I would just add a set to my next order.

Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
Team Outrage

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HelicopterOutrage 50-90-Nitro › Velocity Head Ripped itself apart in flight :(
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