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Other › Torque Limiting Device for TREX450PRO Torque Tube
12-29-2009 02:49 AM  7 years agoPost 21
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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The torque tube gears are glass junk for a noob,you will end up replacing them ALOT trying to learn to hover.jrockstuart says there junk (maybe he should post a video of him out flying the belt to back up what hes saying) and the belts snap.I have a few videos of my old Trex 450 where I had a esc failed and landed on its side,videos of the tail hitting the ground landing and never once snapped a belt.As a matter of fact,ive been flying belt helis for allmost 2 years and never once had a belt snap and I hit the tail ALOT when I first started flying,heres my youtube screen name flyinhigh450.Go look at all of my videos when I first started the hobby,theres a few crashed,tail hitting the ground and never once did I have a belt snap.I replaced the belt 1 time out of im sure 200+ flights and thats because I crashed bad.Guess I rather see the guy save alot of money,get alot of stick time and put a belt on his heli so hes not replacing torque tube gears all the time.Take the torque tube off and put it away till your ready for it or plan on working more than flying.Ive seen this happn so many times at our club where a noob hits the tail too many times and ends up with a belt then there happy because there flying and not working.Each there own but I rather see someone learning to fly than working all the time.People need to think about helping the new guy,not what they want or would do.

Also,that torque tube doesn't work like it should.Do a search and you'll see the gears ALLWAYS strip.Like others said,try to fit a longer fin and get the belt setup and put the torque tube back on when you know your not hitting the tail.

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12-29-2009 04:22 AM  7 years agoPost 22
KingJoeMack

rrVeteran

New Baltimore, Mi USA

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+1 on Beginner with a belt.
I started with a torque tube, got so good at replacing gears it was a joke at the field. On trex 600 the sell the gears in sets of 3, ever wonder why?
Everything I have has been modified to belt, save your self a lot of greif.
In the winter, start slow, as to warm up the belt, and then fly like normal. The gyro also has to get accilimated to the temp, about 5 min.
Try the torque tube if you like, but as a beginner you will do things that experianced flyer won't do. Also be carefull when replacing torque tube gears as not to strip out the main boom block. If you do, a little CA on threads works great.
Do what you want and see what works for you. Just don't put good money after bad.

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12-29-2009 05:41 AM  7 years agoPost 23
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Have any of you actually tried the black Align torque tube? When the torque tube snaps from hitting the tail, you pull off the tail with two screws, shake the heli to get the broken half of the torque tube out, slide in a new torque tube, and then attach two bolts to get the tail back on. There is not adjusting tension up front. There is no threading the belt through.

Look, I don't think a beginner needs a real torque tube. But this Align black torque tube is made to shear off in the event that the t/r blades touch the grass, and it is a lot simpler than having to adjust and re-adjust the belt tension.

If you have the shear away torque tube, you DO NOT have to replace the gears. Besides, you get 2 torque tubes in the package for $10 so each crash only costs $5.

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12-29-2009 02:01 PM  7 years agoPost 24
ShuRugal

rrKey Veteran

Killeen, TX

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have you actually read his posts? he's already using the black tube. it aint working!
jrockstuart - I do have the black torque tube. It hasn't broken while the gears have stripped. I popped it out to have a look and it looks intact.

AMA 700159

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12-29-2009 02:06 PM  7 years agoPost 25
4cyclic

rrKey Veteran

Montreal, Can. and northern Vermont

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I'm with jrockstuart here on the belt breaking in flight on the 450. I did 4 belts on 2 different 450SE break in flight and it's a lot more repair time to fix frame, broken servos gears, busted mains and so on, then changing a TT gear. I sold my 2 SE because of the belt problems.
Sometime the belt would last 30 flights or 200. You could never be confident it would last...

The 450Pro tail system is a great one, just use the tube that shears on ground contact.

Life is meaningful flying helis.

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12-29-2009 02:15 PM  7 years agoPost 26
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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have you actually read his posts? he's already using the black tube. it aint working!
Yes I read his posts, but I think he does not have the "correct" black torque tube. He either has a defective one, a torque tube out of a clone, or Align is now painting both torque tubes black.

With the black TT I'm using, you just barely have to twist it and it shears off. The gears are much stronger than the torque tube.

It seems 4cyclic and I are the only ones who have had a belt break in flight? I just don't think a NOOB should have to worry about having a belt snap in the air, having the tail of the helicopter start pirouetting 20 times a second, reflexively hitting throttle hold, and then trying to do a forced auto. A NOOB should concentrate on tail in hovering and the "black" torque tube makes that possible.

It takes a certain amount of experience to know what to do when you have a catastropic tail failure. When you hear a snap and the helicopter starts rotating really fast, even I stand there for a second thinking "WTF just happened". Then you realize to hit throttle hold and drop the collective, but on a 450 you get one shot to auto it, and if your timing is even a little bit off you get a blade stop 4 feet off the ground.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Randz is ready for that yet. So here is what I predict will happen. Randz will figure some way to retrofit a belt drive to his 450 Pro. Then after a few times of hitting the tail in the dirt and thinking everything is fine, the belt drive will either slip off the drive or snap while the heli is 15 feet in the air. Randz' helicopter will then proceed to pirouette into the ground at a high rate of speed with the blades going at full throttle. And in the end much of the helicopter will be destroyed. This is a scenario which can be avoided.

Randz, why don't you just try ordering the set of torque tubes I referenced in my previous post? At the same time, get yourself some training gear to help keep your helicopter off the ground while you learn to land gently. Add some collective expo to your first idle up setting so it will be easier for you to land gently. Don't try to retrofit a belt drive to the 450Pro. It will just cause you more pain and heartache. Believe me, I know from experience.

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12-29-2009 02:53 PM  7 years agoPost 27
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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ShuRugal have you actually read his posts? he's already using the black tube. it aint working!
jrockstuart - I do have the black torque tube. It hasn't broken while the gears have stripped. I popped it out to have a look and it looks intact.
jrockstuart only saying what he wants to say and could care less if it helps the OP.Just like the op allready told everyone hes useing training gear and hes still stripping the gears but jrockstuart tells him to use training gear so the TT gears don't strip.It doesn't matter if hes useing training gear or not because training gear helps keep the heli from tipping over,nothing at all to do with the tail.
4cyclic
I'm with jrockstuart here on the belt breaking in flight on the 450. I did 4 belts on 2 different 450SE break in flight and it's a lot more repair time to fix frame, broken servos gears, busted mains and so on, then changing a TT gear. I sold my 2 SE because of the belt problems.
Sometime the belt would last 30 flights or 200. You could never be confident it would last...
You really must be doing somthing wrong if you had that many problems,broke frames,servos ect... because of the belt LOL.

The OP should read some of jrockstuart past post about the pro lol.He will do anything to get someone to fly what he has.jrockstuart,maybe I should post the link where you said the pro is crash proof/problem free?Remember the one where everyone called you out on the problems like the glass TT gears,having to change them because they strip easy.Your the first person I seen trying to tell people that the torque tube is the way to go for a noob lol.Theres no pully for the belt anymore,just the 2 drive gears so what are you talking about?

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12-29-2009 03:02 PM  7 years agoPost 28
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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It doesn't matter if hes useing training gear or not because training gear helps keep the heli from tipping over,nothing at all to do with the tail.
There are training gear for 450 sized helis which lift the helicopter up off the ground by 6 inches or more. This would solve his problem of the tail hitting the grass. How about something like this:

http://www.bhhelimodelismo.com/wp-c...-on-trex600.jpg
jrockstuart only saying what he wants to say and could care less if it helps the OP....Your the first person I seen trying to tell people that the torque tube is the way to go for a noob lol.
Let's not be rude. We're each entitled to our own opinion, and we're ALL trying to help. I think the 450Pro with the "black" torque tube is much better for the NOOB, and for the most part it is relatively crash proof unless you go in full throttle. In my opinion, it is a great design--especially since they put the tail servo inside the one piece frames and eliminated the problematic belt drive.

If you want to argue for the merits of the OP using a belt drive, then please do so. In the end, it's Randz' helicopter and he can do whatever he wishes with it.

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12-29-2009 03:25 PM  7 years agoPost 29
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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I think the 450Pro with the "black" torque tube is much better for the NOOB
Seems your reading what you wanna read because people have ALLREADY said the black TT doesn't work like it should.Theres 2 guys in our area that keeps stripping the gears with the black TT,ones switching to the belt and the other guy is selling his because there sick of the glass torque tube gears.The OP should switch to the belt then put the TT back on when he knows hes not hitting the tail anymore.I have alot of videos on youtube of me flying my 450's when I was a noob that shows the TT is NOT for noobs.I have no ideal why you keep telling the guy theres a fix for the TT when theres NOT.

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12-29-2009 03:43 PM  7 years agoPost 30
4cyclic

rrKey Veteran

Montreal, Can. and northern Vermont

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You really must be doing somthing wrong if you had that many problems,broke frames,servos ect... because of the belt LOL.
Not really, I had over 600 flights on those 2 SE

If you eject a belt at 30 ft on a vertical attitude, it's pretty hard to recover and not break a few parts... but heh maybe you're good at it.

Life is meaningful flying helis.

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12-29-2009 03:51 PM  7 years agoPost 31
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Theres 2 guys in our area that keeps stripping the gears with the black TT,ones switching to the belt and the other guy is selling his because there sick of the glass torque tube gears.
OK fine. Go with the belt drive. I was only trying to be helpful.

But I have no idea how you're going to retrofit a belt drive to a 450Pro. Seems like it would be easier just to buy a 450Sport (or maybe a used 450SEv2) and transplant all of your electronics to the other helicopter.

Belt drive vs. Torque Tube aside, I still think the 450Pro is better for the NOOB because of the 1 piece frames. It is very hard to crack a frame on the 450 Pro.

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12-29-2009 04:38 PM  7 years agoPost 32
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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[quote]jrockstuart
But I have no idea how you're going to retrofit a belt drive to a 450Pro. quote]
You buy the parts,thats how you do it.

[quote]jrockstuart
A torque tube, so long as you don't hit the tail, is maintenance free.
quote]
This is what you said in the other thread.Maybe you should stop changing your storys .The op says hes stripping gears from hitting the tail and you keep trying to tell him the TT is crash proof but you say this on another thread.Thats why I said read your past post because theres alot more than just this.Im done here and im sure the op will find out what to do after a few tail bumps.

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12-29-2009 11:02 PM  7 years agoPost 33
randz

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia - Australia

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Sounds like I inadvertently stirred something up in this discussion. Apologies for that. For what it's worth I really appreciate the advice from everyone. As an engineer (not a mechanical one) I am a fan of the TT design. As a frustrated NOOB I'm just searching for more flight time.

jrockstuart - I think you may be right about my "black" TT not being the the "easy-to-break" version. Perhaps Align is painting some "hard-to-break" TTs black. I say this because my bird is very new, well after they switched to using silver TTs. I know someone with a 450PRO that has a serial number older than mine and it has a silver TT in it as stock. I will write to Align and ask. (Incidentally I also had a different motor in mine compared to my friend's. Go figure.) I did actually buy some spare black torque tubes - I will try those while thinking about where to go next. I have the Thunder Tiger training gear for 450.

I still have no idea how I will retrofit the belt-drive to the 450Pro. I could lash out and buy another 450 - with a belt-drive in it. 2 birds + 2 drives = more flight time.

My solution space is this (in no particular order):

1. Persist with TT
Try longer tail fin
Try shorter tail rotor blades
Loosen tail rotor blades
Try new training gear with more clearance
Try different "black" TT

2. Retrofit Belt Drive
Buy a cheapie HK 450 clone and use it as my engineering prototype

3. Purchase a second 450 with a belt drive

Thanks again everyone for giving me options and opinions.

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12-29-2009 11:21 PM  7 years agoPost 34
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Try new training gear with more clearance
This would definitely be the easiest. Also, try some expo in your collective on your TX to make it a little bit easier to land gently.

You could also take some foam and put it on the bottom of your landing gear. Those plastic pool "noodles" work good, and since you're not doing aerobatics, the extra weight won't really matter.

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12-29-2009 11:30 PM  7 years agoPost 35
LonR

rrElite Veteran

Macomb,Mi

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I wonder if a Trex 500 tail fin would fit if he drills a new hold or would it be too tall?If its too tall the heli will take off in forward flight lol.

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12-30-2009 04:08 AM  7 years agoPost 36
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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The tail fin on the 450 Pro is definitely too short (since it is only about 5mm longer than the tail blades), but if you put a longer tail fin on there then you end up bending the tail boom (unless you have a CF tail boom in which case it will crack) with pretty much any landing. The reason is that the landing gear are, in essence, too short in the back so the entire weight of the heli rests on the front of the landing gear and the extented tail fin. Yes, a 500 tail fin would work (if you drilled another hole), but I think it would actually cause more harm then good. With the stock landing gear and the stock tail fin, on a perfectly smooth surface there is maybe 5mm clearance between the tail fin and the ground. Most helis have a lot more clearance than that. My little 250 has about 15mm clearance.

Someone needs to invent some taller landing gear for the 450Pro for the Noobies. In the meantime, either melting the landing gear into a tail up position, or adding some foam (or another spacer) to the bottom of the landing gear is a good idea.

I do not fly my 450Pro off the grass anymore. I only fly it off concrete, and I only land tail up with the heli sliding backwards. Otherwise, even the best pilot is going to bust the tail from time to time. I love the simplicity of the design of the 450 Pro, but this landing gear/tail fin issue is definitely not one of it's better points.

On the 450 SE/V2/Sport, some people buy 2 sets of gorilla gear--a short pair and a long pair. They put a long one on the back and a short one on the front. Then the helicopter is always in a "tail up" position. Yes, when you take off the helicopter tends to fly forward, but it is better than always busting the tail in the grass when you're landing.

Randz, you could definitely try that mod. Do you know what Gorilla gear are?

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12-30-2009 01:01 PM  7 years agoPost 37
bosshoss

rrVeteran

Chicago, IL

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Mavrik Belt

I have been flying belt at 3000rpm for 3 years. After two Align belts blew, (my bad maybe??, wrong tension?), I switched to a Mavrik belt. The mavrik belt is the best of them all.

Haven't blown a belt in more than 1000 flights at 3000rpm. Even with crashes....it is still perfect.

The TT is great for those that have a landing mat or flat surface.

What is the big deal? He asked a Q. Let him pick who he wants to listen to......

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

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12-30-2009 01:26 PM  7 years agoPost 38
jermo

rrNovice

Fort Mill, SC - USA

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+ on converting to Belt, I've never lost a belt in flight. I also never used training gear because IMHO it makes the chopper too unstable and the pilot pays more attention to the gear than the rotordisk/mainshaft where the attention should be.

If you don't have a simulator get one, learn to hover in all orientations, then just go repeat on the real thing. Anything else just slows you down and teaches bad habits imho.

Jermo

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12-30-2009 09:28 PM  7 years agoPost 39
randz

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia - Australia

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I hadn't seen gorilla gear used in two heights before. I just did a search and I saw some pics on the net. The tail up position looks odd but it could work!

I think I will try it - thanks for the advice. If it doesn't work, I wouldn't have lost much.

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12-30-2009 09:31 PM  7 years agoPost 40
randz

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia - Australia

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Thanks bosshoss and jermo.

I'm still considering a second bird with a belt-drive. I actually like the BEAM E4 V2 (a 450 class bird). The thing looks pretty well engineered.

I fly the simulator as much as possible - I use realflight G4.5 - seems to be pretty realistic for hovering.

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