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› Sylphide E conversion
01-02-2010 05:49 AM  7 years agoPost 41
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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10-4

I just put the other gear in. I'm going out in the backyard as soon as the packs are charged. No use in waiting until daylight.

There should be little issue with leaning on the extra power since I'll use 1/2 of the runtime in the hovering portion of the schedule.

More to follow.....

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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01-02-2010 05:54 AM  7 years agoPost 42
rocket_33

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Mount Pleasant, Michigan USA

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I think I will wait up to hear the results :-)

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01-02-2010 06:08 AM  7 years agoPost 43
Wayne Mann

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United States of America

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Ben is showing some big brass ones as it has got to be cold as hell where he is in Richmond VA. It is only in the mid 20s here in Greensboro NC and he is 3.5 hours drive time north of me. I remember when I was young and gun ho or was I chasing hos. I can't remember.

Wayne

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01-02-2010 06:10 AM  7 years agoPost 44
Wayne Mann

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United States of America

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Tic tock over here. Boy, it sure is nice and toasty here in my computer room.

Wayne

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01-02-2010 06:47 AM  7 years agoPost 45
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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I couldn't fly but for a brief period because the 93 t gear I put in is noisy as hell and would have pissed off my next door neighbor. Be that as it may, I don't think it's enough. The packs were at 50 volts hot off charge and were close to that while I was flying (per the logger as well), and the logger still says the ESC needed 92% throttle to drive the head. Hover % dropped by about 5% to 54%.

Danny, if the voltage is shown to be holding at this point in the flight as it is, what accounts for this much throttle being needed run in idle up in hover at 1980rpm? What's sucking up the headroom? Surely this motor isn't that wimpy.

Ben

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01-02-2010 07:28 AM  7 years agoPost 46
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Well,

I did some studying with the governor software and what it suggests for gearing ranges.

Based on its predictions, this set up is running exactly where it says it will.

So.....I suppose I'm going to rethink the gearing a bit and use the software to get a little more headroom in this set up. 11/95 or 11/97 satisfy this requirement.

Ben

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01-04-2010 01:15 AM  7 years agoPost 47
ymuraki

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Tampa, FL

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Darn freeeezing.
Wonder what happened to sunny Florida.

Flew this Sylphide a little yesterday. This mechanic is really quiet. I initially had buzzing noises due to wrong belt and imbalanced tail blades, but after rectified those issues, machine is scary quiet now. Just hear occasional belt slapping to boom and blade noises. Tail blade noises are the highest.

I initially flew with "Gov High." Throttle on radio was set to 8% to hover. Head speed was around 1650. I set 80% on idle up, and it was spinning 2045, although it it sounded like just 16~1700rpm.
Problem on this High-gov mode was that I can't lower speed on hover. If I lower a couple of points, esc would not engage.

Since it was miserable outside and even colder than yesterday, I hovered at front yard. I tried "Gov-Low" mode. I didn't have anyone to tach me (this one does not have ICE)so I went by whatever esc programming is telling me. 92% throttle on hover and round 1500rpm. 98% for 1960 (I think.) I also set idle up 2 for 100% throttle. I could hear quite big change on rpm between 98% to 100%, so 100% throttle got be doing near 2100. This setting should work OK, and I can change head speed quite bit on hover. 1960 on governed mode is not as much as I was hoping for, but that's the head speed I was running on nitro.

Big difference between my TRex is that this motor & ESC does not make any chopping noises when I lower head speed. In T-rex, which I tried several motors and gear ratios, motor & ESC start making chopping noises below 1500rpm.

Hope it get warmer soon, so I can test upstairs.

Nob

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01-04-2010 01:35 AM  7 years agoPost 48
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Unless you tell me it was 30D at noon with a 25 mph wind like it was here, I don't want to hear about cold.

Beg, borrow or steal a data logger or swap ESC's so you can see what the thing is really doing in the air, esp. the headspeed when the throttle is that far open. I'm interested in how much (or if) the headspeed drops under load with the ESC running that close to max.

Nob, make sure you oil the Scorpion at least once per flying session. I had my motor apart this weekend to change to the new stronger shaft, and the lower bearing was already getting "iffy". I had been oiling routinely. I'm conflicted as to whether a ceramic will offer a tangible increase in longevity.

Ben

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01-04-2010 02:00 AM  7 years agoPost 49
ymuraki

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Tampa, FL

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Hey Ben,
It was 40 degrees day time, it's not cold enough to freeze water, but sure froze my buns.

The T-rex log indicate throttle output within esc was 100% as soon as I went to idle up, but head speed kept up between 1950~2100, so not too bad. I'll test 11T pinion from 10T (11.7 to 10.64.) I guess CC software likes this gear ratio. Will see what happens in the air.

After that, I'll transfer ICE to Sylphide.

It's not easy to oil bottom bearing on outrunners... In my Sylphide, I can't even oil top bearing, but this one has top pinion support, so it probable easier for bearings.

Nob

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01-04-2010 02:11 AM  7 years agoPost 50
rocket_33

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Mount Pleasant, Michigan USA

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In some of the motorsports applications we used a coated ceramic bearing. I think this might help esp given the revs. I don't know what size you use (yet until I get mine :cool but since it should not be subjected to impact loads it should help I think

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01-04-2010 02:26 AM  7 years agoPost 51
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Randy,

The bearing in question is 8x16x5. Fortunately, I can easily access both bearings for lubrication. The Scorpion oil kit has a bottle with a nice square tipped hypodermic which will reach the lower bearing. Research suggests that it's the lower bearing on the Scorpion that takes the beating.

Nob, if it was 40D in FL, you did indeed freeze your butt.

Ben

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01-04-2010 05:33 AM  7 years agoPost 52
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Ben is showing some big brass ones as it has got to be cold as hell where he is in Richmond VA. It is only in the mid 20s here in Greensboro NC and he is 3.5 hours drive time north of me. I remember when I was young and gun ho or was I chasing hos. I can't remember.
It got to the upper 20's here and I'm not even going to drag an electric out the basement walkout and then back in again. Ben must be dedicated.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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01-04-2010 05:43 AM  7 years agoPost 53
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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More like seriously determined........

Ben

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01-11-2010 04:37 AM  7 years agoPost 54
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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OK...........while all you whimps were inside in the warmth, I ducked in and out of my house and got a couple of hovering flights in to get some numbers and see how the model would run. Voltages were consistent enough over the flight that it reasonable to assume that the cold wasn't playing a role in the short time I was outside. I literally walked out the door, plugged in the batts, and flew.

Anyhow, the model ran like a watch on 8.818 and 500 kV on 12S. As you would expect, current increased over where it was with 9.5. I up'ed the hover rpm to 1500 to be easier on the ESC. It ran very smoothly there. The model ran perfectly at 2000 rpm in hoveronce I backed the governor down a few points. Current in hover was 20 amps. Current in idle up at 2000 rpm was 50 amps. Predicted ESC power readings were within 2% of what the software had predicted.

I'll reserve judgment on this combo until I can get it upstairs and see how how the peak currents go. I would suspect this may be a fuzz too tall on the gearing, but I have 9.1 and 9.3 also at my disposal. So, I can literally play "dial a set up" until I zero in on just the right combination of power/headroom versus efficiency. The ICE logger is invaluable for this task. I can tell EXACTLY how a given change affects the set up.

All and all, very rewarding.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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01-11-2010 04:58 AM  7 years agoPost 55
Wayne Mann

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United States of America

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Hi Ben,

Sounds good. We have some near 50 degree temps coming towards the middle to the end of next week. Maybe you will get a chance to see what you have upstairs. How much did you throttle percentage go down while hovering at 2000 rpm?

Wayne

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01-11-2010 05:23 AM  7 years agoPost 56
ymuraki

rrApprentice

Tampa, FL

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Ben,
Sounds good. Let's see how it holds up on upstairs with real load on.

It was cold with 25mph wind here again, but it wasn't raining.
I put one flight on Sylphide. She hovered good, but when I kicked in to idle up it start to shake. Found out main shaft was bent. Not sure it was tweaked before, or this steel 10mm shaft is not strong enough.
It was bent enough to see swash plate moves around.
I ordered a couple main shafts to Japan, but if it bend in the air again, I'll need to step up to 12mm shaft. I'm adapting Hirobo's SS main shaft for the time being.

I'm going to Danville, VA this week for business. I hope weather warms up like Wayne is hoping for.

Stay warm. It's 28 degrees now.

Nob

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01-11-2010 05:33 AM  7 years agoPost 57
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Wayne,

The logger said the ESC settled at 86% in hover at 2K. The program had predicted 88%. I was at 92-94% at 9.5:1 before. Thus I still have two ratios in between, namely 9.1 and 9.3, if 8.8 proves to be too inefficient.

I'll fly it just as soon as I get the weather on the weekend. No flying during the week d/t work unless I work the upcoming weekend and am off Wed afternoon, but I don't work this weekend. So much easier to test in the spring/summer after work with long days.

Have a safe trip up Nob. Weather isn't supposed to be quite so cold.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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01-12-2010 12:43 AM  7 years agoPost 58
gollet510

rrNovice

France

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ESC TYPE

Hello Ben,

What is the exact CC ESC you are testing?Is it Phoenix Ice HV 160 or something else ?

Thanks for your answer.

Sylphide E12

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01-12-2010 01:22 AM  7 years agoPost 59
ymuraki

rrApprentice

Tampa, FL

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Gollet510,

Ben is using Ice 80HV, and I'm using just Phoenix HV 85 on my Sylphide (ICE HV 80 on my T700.)

Nob

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01-17-2010 11:59 PM  7 years agoPost 60
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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I flew some on Saturday with 8.8:1, Scorpion 500kV, 12S, 80ICE.

First, this combination runs like a watch at 1500 rpm in hover @ 19 or 20amps. Controller temp is less 140D F in hover and just over 100D F upstairs.

My first few flights showed peak current of about 90 amps for less than 1S on a few occasions during pulls for aeros. On the last flight I shifted the pitch curve so I would have more pitch for autos. That pitch was added to the top side of the idle up curves as well and was about 10.5-11D. I flew the model like that a had one peak of 102amps for about 1/2 second. None of this was beyond the ability of the ESC. Clint Akins told me that Matt Botos has hit his with spikes of 140 amps with the temps never getting over 140D. Thus I'm not concerned about the controller but more about efficiency and run time.

My peak power was a bit over 4000 watts, and I know I can easily fly my schedule with 750-1000 watts LESS than that (and still have more than I've ever has under my left thumb). Thus I depitched the head back down to 10D, and I'll use the power only when I need it for pulls and so forth. The benefit of this change is the headroom is allowing the governor to hold the headspeed at within 20 rpm of the set 2000 at all times; it was dropping over 100 rpm with the previous gearing. Now the logger curve for the rpm looks like a table top.

Later this week I'm going to do a full schedule and see exactly where I stand on run time. If needed, I can drop back to 9.1:1 and gain back a bit more efficiency.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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