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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Is there a stronger engine for the radical?
12-29-2009 07:52 PM  7 years agoPost 121
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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Carey: Remember I Told You SO,!!!!!! Wally

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12-29-2009 08:06 PM  7 years agoPost 122
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Now, if folks decide that this isn't important and the economy of gasoline wins out, then we'll see maneuvers adapt to what works best with a heavier model.
No doubt we'll see larger and larger helicopters that are powered by gasoline in the near future. We've seen this happen with RC airplanes these last few years. No doubt the same will happen with RC helis in the coming years. Let's face it. We all want 90 sized helis (or larger), and the only thing that keeps us all from flying big helis is the exorbinate cost of nitro fuel (or batteries). If the gas helis could somehow become as powerful as the comparable nitro helis, everyone would be flying 90 (and larger) gas helis.

Wally's efforts aside, I don't think enough energy has been put into developing gas helicopter motors. 20 years ago, all that was available for gas airplanes was chainsaw motors. All of the performance airplanes were .60 2-stroke nitro or 1.20 4-stroke nitro. Now all of the top airplane pilots are flying 1/4 and 1/3 scale Edge 540's outfitted with Desert Aircraft engines. Hardly anyone flies nitro in competition airplanes anymore. But unfortunately we don't have an equivalent engine available for RC gas helis. Someone needs to design one. I called Desert Aircraft and they said "no". But if you compare a DA50 with an equivalent Zenoah engine, the DA engine weighs a lot less and has considerably more power. We need the same for our helis.

I don't know about you, but when I show up to the flying field and the guy next to me has a 150cc gasoline powered airplane which is large enough to fly a small dog, it makes me wish they made larger gas helis.

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12-29-2009 08:09 PM  7 years agoPost 123
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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I'm looking forward to it coming true then Wally - :-)

At the OHB event a coupla weeks ago, Tim Jones brought his "special" Trex 700 electric conversion. It has a 10HP electric motor on it. There are videos of it elsewhere on this site. Its a good example of what happens when you have virtually unlimited power.

I'll still argue though that when you watch the top pilots throw these machines around, the quickness of the response of the machine itself contributes to the maneuvers. A heavier machine will not be as nimble no matter how much power it has, its just physics.

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12-29-2009 08:18 PM  7 years agoPost 124
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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it makes me wish they made larger gas helis.
well that would be pretty cool. Not sure thats where the market wants to go though. It seems in the helicopter part of the hobby that everybody wants cheap and big is not cheap.

perhaps with the expansion of the UAV businesses, some more appropriate powerplants will become available.

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12-29-2009 08:40 PM  7 years agoPost 125
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Carey,

You also have to consider this. There are a lot of people out there that do not want to or cannot fly like these "Top Pilots". So these "New Era" gassers are more suited for them. What is the point of having 10HP at your finger tips if you can only use 50% of it. To me that is "wasted energy". Same can be said about Nitros. When I go out there flying, I'll put a gallon through it in a days time easily. In my eyes, I do not use the full potential of a Nitro. I might get close every now and then, but never do I use it all the time. So again in my eyes, I feel like I wasted energy. I do not have that same feeling with the Radikal. It can still out fly me and I do not feel like I am not spending more than I need to.

Granted there are people out there that want the best of the best. They might not be able to use it to it's potential. But they want it. Well, no one will stop them from having it. It all comes down to what the individual wants. Every model will find it's place in the grand scheme of things.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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12-29-2009 08:44 PM  7 years agoPost 126
4 stroke flyer

rrApprentice

Dowagiac,MI

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It seems in the helicopter part of the hobby that everybody wants cheap
Peolpe want cheap to start with. But when they become an advanced pilot and most of the time sooner they want better, and they will pay for it. I have seen in the past someone will buy a 400.00 kit to start with and in a year buy a thousand dollar worth of upgrades trying to make it a better heli. Once you are IN this hobby most will spend all they have and more.
I am glad people like Wally, Hanson,and toxic have taken the time and countless dollars to develope a better more smooth running motor for our gassers. Our hobby is growing at a fast rate. Someday DA may have wished they would have done the work.

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12-29-2009 08:49 PM  7 years agoPost 127
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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I totally agree with Sparx

I see people flying nitros out there no harder than I fly my gasser. In fact, every move they are doing I can do exactly the same with my gasser. I feel like they are wasting $$$s, because that thing sits there hovering at high head speed and the fuel is going chi-ching chi-ching every second. An 8 minute flight they blow through fuel at a rate of 25 cents every 30 seconds. If they are flying like the Pro right over the deck hard and fast, then its worth it. But for the guy who is just flying casually around and doing some maneuvering, or even working on learning flying inverted, its definately a waste of power and money.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-29-2009 08:55 PM  7 years agoPost 128
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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We want cheap, but I think we also want big. I remember "back in the day" when the planker flying field was full of little .40 sized airplanes. Now the planker flying field is almost completely giant scale. In fact, the only people who are not flying giant scale are the beginners. There are several guys who pull up to the field hauling 16 foot enclosed trailers behind their trucks.

The larger airplanes are definitely not as "fast" as the smaller airplanes, but they are much more impressive since they are so big.

I really think we'll see the same trend with our helicopters. If history gives us any guide, then I think 10 years from now we'll see beginners flying 450 sized electric helis, and the rest of us will be flying gas helis with 2 meter long rotor blades hauled to the field inside 16 foot long enclosed trailers.

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12-29-2009 09:06 PM  7 years agoPost 129
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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You know, that's a good point

The larger airplanes are definitely not as "fast" as the smaller airplanes, but they are much more impressive since they are so big.
It is acceptable to buy a giant scale plane that is not as fast or even better said "things happen at a slower rate" and people love that.

But for helicopters, so far it seems to be not acceptable for things to happen at a slower rate, everyone wants fast fast fast!

Maybe its an era where airplane fliers at one point wanted the fastest plane they could have, but later decided its not all about speed, but gracefulness and the ability to perform maneuvers that people can actually watch and enjoy.

Some day the heli world might catch up to that, or maybe not. Who knows. I guess it depends on the majority of the heli fliers.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-29-2009 09:30 PM  7 years agoPost 130
rccarguy

rrVeteran

Boston MA

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Maybe its an era where airplane fliers at one point wanted the fastest plane they could have, but later decided its not all about speed, but gracefulness and the ability to perform maneuvers that people can actually watch and enjoy.
Could be, though most of the guys I've encountered flying planes were somewhat older than the average heli pilot, maybe its just a case of bigger = I can see the d*m thing now...

XCell Spectra G
Radikal G20
Some obsolete nitro helis too...

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12-29-2009 09:44 PM  7 years agoPost 131
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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maybe its just a case of bigger = I can see the d*m thing now...
Ah Roger that.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-29-2009 10:27 PM  7 years agoPost 132
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I never found the "speed demon" airplanes to be much fun. Airplanes which fly by you at 100mph+ get boring in about 10 minutes. An airplane which goes really slow and can do all sort of aerobatic moves is much more fun.

But maybe with a helicopter the same reasoning doesn't apply? I just don't know.

Even if I had a full fuselage on my Spectra, it would still be no bigger than a .60 sized airplane. I would like to fly a really giant scale helicopter, even if it was not as 3D capable as a Trex 450. Something which I didn't have to stand up next to the runway to be able to see.

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12-29-2009 10:44 PM  7 years agoPost 133
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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I guess you guys have not seen the giant size warbird racers out west at 150mph plus

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12-29-2009 10:49 PM  7 years agoPost 134
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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Hank Cooper in Jackson MS has a 1/3 scale cub with a z twin that does one of the best slow aerobatic routines you have ever witness..
I want one , hehe

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12-29-2009 10:57 PM  7 years agoPost 135
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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Everyone wants the best they can get, More the power the more they want it, Otherwise Hanson and Toxic would of been gone a long time ago, I think what is going to sell the best is something with an engine rpm of around 11,500 to under 12,000 with a low gr, say 6.4, high 1800 head and fly like a nitro, Everyone will jump, I don't like running over 12,000, rpm all the time, and a lot of people told me the same, It doesn't matter what kind of flyer you are you still will crave more power, Like in the 60's big block 427's & 426's most of the people I knew did not race them, just drove them to be very cool, and have the best, But I know thing are changing for 2010, And we will see what sells. MY bet is power & torque, and a heli made for this, Wally

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12-29-2009 11:36 PM  7 years agoPost 136
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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MY bet is power & torque, and a heli made for this, Wally
ahhhhhhhh, and which heli would that be..........inquiring minds want to know.

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12-29-2009 11:54 PM  7 years agoPost 137
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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Doesn't make a difference who makes it, as long someone makes it, The engines are here, What we need the heli, Wally

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12-30-2009 12:12 AM  7 years agoPost 138
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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just wondering, never know whats going on in the "secret wally laboratory"

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12-30-2009 08:52 AM  7 years agoPost 139
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

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11,500 to under 12,000 with a low gr, say 6.4, high 1800 head and fly like a nitro,
Why a low RPM? It's the headspeed with torque you want? Whether that is big cc and compression and a few burns per min or smaller cc and lost of sparks per min it's got to burn fuel to give power, hasn't it?

I always understood that relative efficiency was better on smaller capacity and higher rpm....except that you lose mass to soak the heat but gain on surface area to volume to dissipate it? Big and more mass gives you inertia of reciprocating parts and torque but sluggish throttle response?

Does anyone 3D a nitro at 1800?

A heli frame is just something to hold an engine, electroncis and the head (I like stuff simple).. why it's such an issue to build a frame that goes together idiot proof and isn't made of chewing gum beggers my imagination in contemporary times..

pgk

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12-30-2009 02:13 PM  7 years agoPost 140
[X]Outlaw

rrApprentice

Trinidad and Tobago

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I'm hooked on gassers and would defiantly be looking forward to more powerful power plants in the future!! I have to agree with rbort most maneuvers that the majority of pilots fly...I could do with my gasser no problem!

When I was first considering a gasser I was so worried after I built the machine it would me slow and sluggish like most people were telling me. At the time we the only gasser at the field was a Maxum...2K on the head and that thing was a missile! So I decided to bite the bullet and get the Spectra. I don't regret it!

I can't wait to see what more powerful power plants would bring to this segment of the hobby!

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