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Kontronik Electric Components
› Kontronik vs Scorpion/CC
11-18-2009 10:24 AM  8 years agoPost 1
NoLuckChuck

rrApprentice

Leesville, LA

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I am trying to decide between a Kontronik Tango 45-08 and a Jazz 55-10-32 ESC vs a Scorpion 4025-1100 and a CC ICE or HV. I know the KVs are not the same. My interest is in the reliability and consistency of the governor and the efficiency of the motor. I will be converting a Hirobo Shuttle or putting into a T-Rex 600. Can anybody provide insight on flight times, etc... Not looking for a specifc on the flight time as I understand the physics involved, but maybe a comparison between the two setups assuming each motor has the same KV and all other factors are constant. Will the Kontronik fly longer and have a lesser amp draw. Thanks in advance...

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11-18-2009 11:43 AM  8 years agoPost 2
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

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Chuck,

Nothing comes close to the Efficiency and Durability of a Tango 45-08 and Jazz 55 10-32 combo imho, esp. with 30-50 sized 8-10s heli's.

I have run this combo on my 10s Trex600e for +2 years now (+1 year as a flybarless setup) and it has performed very well. It runs so cool I can go back-to-back flights all day long.

The govenor on the Jazz works better than any CC HV85/110 CC esc I've tried and is much easier to setup.

All things being equal (that is, properly geared and ~ same gov'd headspeed) you can expect ~15% more runtime out of this tango/jazz combo than any outrunner/esc combo. The difference in peak amps is probably more like ~25-30% less with the tango/jazz combo.

The outrunner motors might have a little more 3D punch than the Tango inrunner, but they do so at a big cost in terms of higher peak amps, lower efficiency, and higher running temps (motor and battery temps).

TowerHobbies has these combos on sale right now for under $200 each (together with their normal discounts, even less). A real steal imho (in fact I've already bought another one of each!).

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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11-18-2009 12:50 PM  8 years agoPost 3
NoLuckChuck

rrApprentice

Leesville, LA

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TomC,

Thanks for the reply. I always shop Tower Hobbies and I have the motor in my cart as I type. I already have the Jazz 55-10-32 ESC. I like the discount on the Kontronik closeouts so I am definitely using my Super Saver discount. Your reply is exactly what I was looking for. What setup do you have on your 600? Thanks again.

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11-18-2009 01:44 PM  8 years agoPost 4
kcordell

rrElite Veteran

O Fallon, MO

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I'm running the Tango/Jazz setup in one Razor and Hacker/Castle setup in another. Love them both, although the Hacker motor does run hotter (I do have one of the new Hacker motors with the turbine fan but why change something that works?)they both perform very well.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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11-18-2009 05:59 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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1+ for Kontronik ESCs over all other.

1- for Kontronik price.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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11-19-2009 07:08 AM  8 years agoPost 6
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

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Chuck,

My Trex600e setup is;

10s (2x5s3700 25C Outrage packs), 13t pinion, 170t main, Tango45-08, Jazz 55 10-32 esc, governed to 2150 Headspeed (~75% gov setting), flybarless with Helicommand rigid (with external Fut 401 gyro), Radix main (600mm) and tail (92mm) blades. Fut9252's on cyclic, fut9254 on tail. HobbyKing 5A UBEC set to 6v with align 5.1v stepdown on tail servo.

Runtimes are 7-8 min, depending how hard I fly.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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11-19-2009 07:59 AM  8 years agoPost 7
heli_madken

rrApprentice

Liverpool, England

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Apologies for taking this away from the Trex600 a little but I am trying to decide on a motor for a Trex600 based tandem -

I need torque rather than headspeed, max 45mm diameter case, 65mm length, preferable 8S for size and weight limitations.

If I go for a Tango I am limited to a 13T pinion as I want to go helical geared to prevent stripping under the load of the two heads(unless I can find something higher for a 5mm shaft 0.6 mod but no luck yet) the main gear is 188T

If my calcs are right the 45-08 on 8S would give me a theoretical no load headspeed of approx 1640, first question is my calc correct? whereas the 45-10 would give me 2150

My target would be around 1850 so the 45-10 would be the choice but the 45-10 will have less torque than the 45-08 which is what I want, my question is which do you think I should go for? should I try to squeeze 10S in and go for the 45-08?

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11-19-2009 09:02 AM  8 years agoPost 8
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

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Very nice project, thanks for sharing.

Your Headspeed calcs seem to be in the right ballpark to me.

I'd go with a Tango 45-08 on 10s with this setup. If you are after higher torque, you will always get it with a higher voltage setup.

I'd also ditch the helical gears and go for straights. I've used the helicals quite a bit in the past (on 10s) and found that the only advantage is that they are a little quieter. They can still strip, just as easy, as the straight gears. Proper gear-mesh (fairly tight) together with a smooth power delivery esc like the Jazz is the secret imho.

The helical gears are also reported put a bit more strain on your motor bearings due to extra up/down loading. I never noticed this on the ~50 flights I put on my helical Tango setup, but it may be something to consider, esp if you use lesser quality motors/escs.

While the helical design does give a bit more effective gear contact length, the fact that the straights are 0.7 mod and the helicals 0.6 mod, kind of negates this advantage imo. Also, as you have already found out, the helicals limit you to a fairly narrow gear ratio.

I'd go with a Tango 45-08, Jazz 55 10-32 esc and straight 170t main/12t align pinion. You should be able to easily govern this to your targetted 1850 HS.

Hope this helps and please keep us posted on this very interesting project!

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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11-19-2009 12:04 PM  8 years agoPost 9
heli_madken

rrApprentice

Liverpool, England

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Cheers Tom that helps a lot I have made my mind up then just need to sort out a 10S battery solution that will fit and work with CG etc

Thanks for the comments on the project, I have completed most of the alloy components and the CF side frames once I have this part done I will do a post over in the Tandems section

EDIT - Just ordered a TP 30C 5000MAH 10 Cell battery $420 from Draganfly that will fit, looks like kids will be going without Christmas presents this year

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