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11-18-2009 08:17 PM  8 years agoPost 61
Big Fil

rrKey Veteran

Santa Rosa, CA

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Has anyone seen the issue on a 120HV or the LV versions? So far it seems it has revolved around the 80HV in this discussion.

My 80HV is on 6V and does not exhibit the issue running 8717s, but it's version 5.

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11-18-2009 08:18 PM  8 years agoPost 62
cub2000

rrVeteran

Massachusetts

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Another victim of the 80+HV version 7

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=159330&page=2

Look at the post at the end where the ESC shuts down in flight and the amperage measurement was at 85.4 at the time of the incident.

Anyway, I also have a Trex-700E with the 80+HV version 7, so I subscribe to this thread and wait for a result out of this issue.

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11-18-2009 09:07 PM  8 years agoPost 63
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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You know what is really scary? The fact that if this happens in flight the ESC will keep running for 3 seconds (or till reboot) upon no throttle signal.

My jive 120HV V6 BEC died and foofed my new bls451/251 servos before my first flight.

So does this cutout of the BEC also cut the motor?

Lucky i am running 3 V5 ESC. Only one ship has 8717, will swap them out if my bls are replaced

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11-18-2009 09:13 PM  8 years agoPost 64
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Motor shuts down immediately, I have tested.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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11-18-2009 09:16 PM  8 years agoPost 65
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Ah ha well i guess thats a good thing ???
LOL

Strange that there is no issue on V5 etc. I think there has been something changed in the ESC/BEC for this to happen.

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11-18-2009 09:29 PM  8 years agoPost 66
cub2000

rrVeteran

Massachusetts

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It's not a come-back of this old issue here, is it?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920895

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11-18-2009 09:30 PM  8 years agoPost 67
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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It's not a come-back of this old issue here, is it?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920895
No, that was overcurrent shutdown's which is still possible today with some motors or if you have bad motor connectors (however, Im sure they did fix something in the FW too)

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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11-18-2009 09:38 PM  8 years agoPost 68
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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So then we can run the 8717 and 8900g with no step down at 5.6V safely? I read the 8900G not so tolerant to high voltage as the BLS251.

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11-18-2009 09:41 PM  8 years agoPost 69
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Depends on how you look at it, a 4cell NiMh pack fully charged = 5.6v, that's why that odd number is the default of the Jive...

If your servo is up for it, I dont know really since I only run BLS servos.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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11-19-2009 02:42 AM  8 years agoPost 70
Blade_Master1

rrElite Veteran

Canada

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You spend 400$+ for an ESC and the damn BESC won't work right without a RX pack ?

WTF I would return it and look elsewhere

Hope Kontronik fixes it right for you

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11-19-2009 02:44 AM  8 years agoPost 71
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Still would not touch CC stuff with 10 foot pole, we know there ESC BEC are good for nothing.

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11-19-2009 02:50 AM  8 years agoPost 72
Blade_Master1

rrElite Veteran

Canada

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Thanks for the heads up helicraze
Any model of CC people should stay away from ?
How about the ICE series any better ?

I want to upgrade my ESC next spring still searching

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11-19-2009 02:58 AM  8 years agoPost 73
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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IMO all of them i would stay away from ha ha ha.

ICE series BEC is still not good and as far as i know still governor issues. So complicated. Kontronik is program with stick to heli mode and fly! No gains blah blah etc etc timing/freq/poles

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11-19-2009 03:57 PM  8 years agoPost 74
Long Nguyen

rrVeteran

SoCal, US

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"According to Kontronik , the problem only stems from servo's like the JR and savox servo's that have a lot of inductive voltage that goes back to the BEC during hard usage. the Futaba BLS and Hitec servo's do not shut down the BEC when running 6V. the reason the bec shut down with the 2nd slave connected is because of the reduced resistance. with 1 master only , the bec could only send and receive only what 1 wire would supply , but with the addition of the 2nd wire , the bec could supply the total voltage but also receive the total inductive voltage back....
Kontronik says that for now , with JR and Savox servo's , a separate Buffer battery needs to be added to the Rx to suck up the extra voltage or run at 5.6V only....

Hope this helps..."
2 same wires in parallel will reduce the total resistance by a half, this is TRUE. But can one use 2 wires still in parallel but twice as long as the original ones? So that the total resistance still remains the same as a single original wire.

Long Nguyen
My videos: http://vimeo.com/longnguyen/videos
Máy bay cắt cỏ!

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11-19-2009 04:00 PM  8 years agoPost 75
Long Nguyen

rrVeteran

SoCal, US

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To prevent the current from flowing back, can one use a Schottky Diode to do that?

Long Nguyen
My videos: http://vimeo.com/longnguyen/videos
Máy bay cắt cỏ!

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11-19-2009 05:18 PM  8 years agoPost 76
worldofmaya

rrApprentice

Graz, Styria -​Austria

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I always thought that Kontronik Escs already have this safety circuit. At least for the Jazz I'm sure I read somewhere from Kontronik that they're protected. The question back than was about how different BEC affect each other and how to build such a circuit. I think someone posted a circuit plan for non-Kontronik Esc's...
-Klaus

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11-19-2009 06:37 PM  8 years agoPost 77
MTBSuspEng

rrNovice

Madison, Wi

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Today I received this response from Kontronik, which gives a bit more explination as to the cause of the shutdowns.
"Hi,

with 2 cables you have half the resistance in the cable, so you have less voltage loss in the cable. With higher volage reaching the receiver and servos you have less buffer for back voltage comming from the servos (dynamo effect).

With two cables you also have a higher current draw because of the reduced cable resistance.

An additional receiver battery solves these problems by taking the back voltage comming from the servos and buffering high current peaks.

Best regards,
Marcial Knuth"

Last night I picked up a 750mah Nimh buffer pack which only adds 64g to the heli. It is nice being able to power on the Rx and Vbar before plugging in the main battery. I'm now running at 6v without incident. IMO the buffer pack is a no brainer, even at lower voltage.

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11-19-2009 06:43 PM  8 years agoPost 78
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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I just tested with a 2 inch cable (single), it shutdown within one second... so their theory is correct, however, there is a difference between newer and older, I can shutdown a v5 too, but it takes ALOT longer, meaning no-one probably have encountered this in normal flying with the earlier versions.

Again, if its hardware or software, only kontronik knows.
Last night I picked up a 750mah Nimh buffer pack which only adds 64g to the heli. It is nice being able to power on the Rx and Vbar before plugging in the main battery. I'm now running at 6v without incident. IMO the buffer pack is a no brainer, even at lower voltage.
Except you will never know if you have a bec failure, powering up the other way around will prevent you from not knowing.. Just a thought.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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11-19-2009 06:57 PM  8 years agoPost 79
MTBSuspEng

rrNovice

Madison, Wi

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True MrMel, but I have a Spektrum flight log which displays the voltage at the RX, so it shows 5.6V just off the buffer pack and 6V when I plug in the main battery. The flight log is also a nice way to keep an eye on buffer pack voltage, I suspect that after the initial charge I will rarely need to recharge the pack.

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11-19-2009 07:06 PM  8 years agoPost 80
NTM

rrVeteran

Lloydminster,​Alberta, Canada

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Very, very dissapointing.
Whatever kontronic has changed, they should definitally change it back !

The resale value on older jive's just got better, I'd certainly buy a used one, with the more robust bec, now as opposed to buying new, with the weaker bec.
It must be a hardware change as my older, but updated to version 7, jive shows absolutelly no signs of this bec shutdown stuff.

I'll go 2s direct power before I run a buffer pack.
I suspect the bls251 will take it, but I'd like someone else besides me to try it first

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