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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybarless Raptor 90?
11-21-2009 05:18 PM  8 years agoPost 21
leadlag

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Worthing UK

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Any news you on how the flybarless Raptor is going??

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11-21-2009 10:01 PM  8 years agoPost 22
gtrick90

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Monterotondo,Roma -​ITALY

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Hi!

The R90 flies very well!!!!

Much better than before

Following some pics

R90 VBar


Luca
luca@brizzi.com
Please visit my rc blog http://rctricks.altervista.org

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11-21-2009 10:32 PM  8 years agoPost 23
spacecopter

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Calgary, CANADA

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Is it easy to get parts for a RJX Flybarless Head? Like the spindle, bearings .... .

If I google the RJX Flybarless Head I will find some online stortes - but which online store is actually carrying a lot of parts for this specific RJX flybarless head?

I want to convert the Raptor e620 to a flybarless chopper and I really like the 50 size RJX head - but how is the pars support?

Cheers Marc

No sponsoring - I pay for what I fly

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11-21-2009 10:41 PM  8 years agoPost 24
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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I would say next to Mikado's conversion RJX head is the one easiest to get.

http://www.espritmodel.com/index.as...TS&Category=935

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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11-22-2009 05:25 PM  7 years agoPost 25
Maxime30

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Quebec City, Canada

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I've been very busy the past few days, but now I'm working on the conversion. I'll try to post pix tonight.

Max

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11-23-2009 11:11 AM  7 years agoPost 26
Sarcelle

rrNovice

Cherbourg low​NORMANDY FRANCE

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It is I found my package ...... my Vstabi! More than assembling all this on the Rappy

Filou the WILD duck !!!!!!

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11-23-2009 01:23 PM  7 years agoPost 27
Maxime30

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Quebec City, Canada

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Ok here's a quick update. I do not have pics availlable right now because I'm at work. Sorry I was very busy the last few days. Someone in my familly is sick (cancer), and it's crazy busy at work (I'm a full-size helo flight instructor).

So far, the RJX head looks good. I needed to carefully place the thrust washers between the thrust bearings and radial bearings in the grips, to avoid binding. Maybe there was machining "flashes" left inside the grips.

The Raptor inner swashplate is probably bigger than the T-Rex 700 inner swashplate, so I placed the ball links 8mm from center on both the elevator and aileron servo horns to restrict movements to a minimum while still keeping good servo resolution. I did this late last night, so I still need to fully test this setup to make sure there's absolutelly no binding.

I will install the V-Bar sensor on top of the servo tray, just in front of the collective tray. I'm still unsure how I will connect the ReactorX regulator though.

When all this is done, I'll carefully balance the helicopter as per Mikado's instructions. I might have to find a lighter canopy because the helicopter seems a hair on the nose-heavy side.

I'm still experimenting a few other mods suggested by friends with much more experience than me, but for now this will probably be the initial testflight setup.

Max

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11-23-2009 03:03 PM  7 years agoPost 28
Kader

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Czech Republic

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Hi guys,
Can you tell me, how value you have setting in the cyclic gain box (in swash expert menu) for Raptor 90 SE FBl ? My Rappy strange woble in hovering always after I give an aileron input.

JAN

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11-23-2009 03:19 PM  7 years agoPost 29
Sarcelle

rrNovice

Cherbourg low​NORMANDY FRANCE

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SORRY.......My vBar is not yet installed in my Rappy ...

Filou the WILD duck !!!!!!

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11-23-2009 03:52 PM  7 years agoPost 30
puma1824

rrVeteran

Maryland, USA

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Here's what I've found so far:

I'm using a 90SE, so a few things may be different if you're using a 90 3D.

The RJX Trex 700 FBL head (12mm mainshaft) will work BUT the control arms are still a little too short for the best servo resolution. It will work but you'd still need to cut down Cyclic Gain values in the VBar to a less than optimal setting. You can get a little better resolution by decreasing the distance between the ball on the servo arm from center from the stock 10.5mm to ~8 / 8.5mm. Be careful how far you go in on the servo arm. Don't want to be too close to center or you can have major binding.

As previously stated, you can decrease the Cyclic Gain and Cyclic Ring in the Vbar as well, but again will have less than optimal servo resolution. The best thing I've found is to extend the RJX control arms out from the blade grips from the stock 30mm from center to about 39mm* from center. * I may try a shorter distance which might be better for less of an angle from swash to arm. I did this by having a local machinist make some 9mm aluminum blocks (thanks Ed) that fit between control arms and the blade grip (see pics)

My final head configuration I decided on using the stock 90SE metal grips with some custom made control arms and custom swash driver thanks Ed again!(see pics), which placed the ball links 39mm from center. I’ve been in communication with a manufacturer about making some custom arms for resale.

Using 39mm* * I may try a shorter distance which might be better for less of an angle from swash to arm. from center blade grips, I still have the control balls 8.5mm out on the servo arms. Another thing I needed to do is use different style balls (TT Part# PV0448) on the inner swash. The links from the swash to the blade grips would bind using the stock balls that uses a separate screw.

As for the VBar configuration I used Tom Roflson configuration (http://www.vstabi.de/forum1/read.php?20,32443) as a starting point. I modified the settings slightly. Thanks Tom R for helping me out during the initial prototyping of the head. He provided me the link to his config, his current setup, AND pics to his custom head (see pic)

Check out this vid of Tom R flying his FBL R90se:

Watch at YouTube

Here are a few threads I started at the VStabi forum / support site regarding mCCPM setups:
http://www.vstabi.de/forum1/read.php?19,33280
http://www.vstabi.de/forum1/read.php?19,32520
http://www.vstabi.de/forum1/read.php?19,31890
http://www.vstabi.de/forum1/read.php?19,32533

CG and other issues:
If you're going to use the RJX head, you may want to consider lowering it. The RJX head sits higher than the stock head. Personally, I'd have the mainshaft re-drilled so you can have the RJX head sit at the stock R90 height. It's pretty low compared to other heads due to the flybar assembly being on top.

One thing I have noticed with my R90 is the CG is nose heavy. I'm balancing by the method used by Mikado when troubleshooting CG / piro issues with a VBar (see pic). Using this method the nose is definitely nose heavy. Thanks BartB for the pic.

All my components are mounted as close to the mainshaft as possible using the existing tray (see remaining pics). I tried the slightly heavier aluminum boom supports and even with a full tank the nose is heavy. I can't imagine how it would be if I had my RX, VBar, & regulator on the actual horizontal part of the tray. I prefer not to move the gyro sensor and tail servo to the back, which would probably help.

The battery weighs 110g. I relocated it under the servo tray as a Tom R had suggested. Definitely helped a little but still a little nose heavy. I ordered an ElevatedRC Aluminum Tail Case because it weighs a little more than the stock plastic. This helped a little. I added 1oz or lead weight (wheel weights) to the vertical tail fin to get the CG balanced at 1/2 tank. Now CG is dead on ...Thanks CBell and jsenicka as well with getting config straight

Initial / First Flight Report:

Flew it this past saturday...flies pretty nice so far but I still need to tweak after motor is broken in. Thanks white chocolat (Will F) for helping me with my motor issues and flight testing! Actually I was having issues with my governor w/Spektrum sensor and glow starter. Once the motor is broken in I'll be ready to tweak.

Additional FBL Raptor 90 Threads:
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t549875p1/
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t534448p1/
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t496856p1/

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11-23-2009 06:28 PM  7 years agoPost 31
Maxime30

rrApprentice

Quebec City, Canada

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Thank you for the info Puma1824!

I will also install the 9mm spacer blocks that were made by a machinist friend. Now I'm convinced I'll install them.

Did you keep the default 156 cyclic gain value? And can you tell us how much collective and cyclic pitch you are using?

Max

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11-23-2009 06:31 PM  7 years agoPost 32
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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Thank you for the info Puma1824!

I will also install the 9mm spacer blocks that were made by a machinist friend. Now I'm convinced I'll install them.

Did you keep the default 156 cyclic gain value? And can you tell us how much collective and cyclic pitch you are using?
I have 100 Cyclic Gain and 70 Cyclic Ring. This gives me exactly +/- 10 degrees cyclic pitch in setup mode. I have +/- 12 degrees collective pitch with 80 Collective.

FYI, links from swash down are standard R90 lengths, non-3d setup listed in the manual.

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11-24-2009 10:02 AM  7 years agoPost 33
Kader

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Czech Republic

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Top thread, thanks for so usefull infos,

How mandatory is the distanc between main grip balls and center of main shaft ?? I my stock metal R90SE grips,there is this distanc only about 30mm. Is it necessary increase this distanc to 39mm, how it was described above ?

JAN

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11-24-2009 11:33 AM  7 years agoPost 34
puma1824

rrVeteran

Maryland, USA

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Top thread, thanks for so usefull infos,

How mandatory is the distanc between main grip balls and center of main shaft ?? I my stock metal R90SE grips,there is this distanc only about 30mm. Is it necessary increase this distanc to 39mm, how it was described above ?
Not completely necessary. You can change the Vbar settings (Collective, Cyclic Gain, & Cyclic Ring) to reduce the amount of pitch you will have with the stock 30mm distance. The the side effect or disadvantage of doing the stock setup will decrease the amount of servo resolution.

+ Increase distance on blade grip = more servo resolution

example: at 80% servo throw have 12 degrees pitch...ideal

- Decrease distance and/or stock distance on blade grip = less servo resolution

example: at 80% servo throw have 18 degrees pitch, resulting in having to lower it to 50% servo throw to get the desired 12 degrees pitch.

*Examples are just estimates

Target / Mikado suggested values (measured in setup mode):
+/- 10 -12 degrees Collective Pitch @ 80 Collective

Correction: For Cyclic Ring, adjust Cyclic Ring until NO BINDING at full deflection ...thanks Chuckie

FYI: Tom R from TT had also used 39mm on his conversion.

One thing you may want to try if you don't want to change the arms, is to buy a different swashplate, like the QuickUK and reduce the length of the balls on the inner swash ring. This will have the same effect but not sure how much decrease throw. Maybe I'll try if I can find a QuickUK swash for a decent price.

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11-24-2009 02:39 PM  7 years agoPost 35
Kader

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Czech Republic

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Thanks for your tips PUMA1824,
I have collective servo throw in the transmitter +/- 77% ( ATV setting) and in the Vbar I have set collective on 90 = this give me +/- 12° collective range on my blades with stock blade grips (30 mm ball distance). With this collective setting I had CG on 156 and CR on 65 (default setting for MCCPM -H1) and in hovering 90SE strong wobbled always after aileron inputs.
Now (thanks to "new know how" for me - how to change this default set value) I set CG on 100 and CR on 60 and I hope, that it will help.

JAN

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11-24-2009 05:15 PM  7 years agoPost 36
puma1824

rrVeteran

Maryland, USA

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Thanks for your tips PUMA1824,
I have collective servo throw in the transmitter +/- 77% ( ATV setting) and in the Vbar I have set collective on 90 = this give me +/- 12° collective range on my blades with stock blade grips (30 mm ball distance). With this collective setting I had CG on 156 and CR on 65 (default setting for MCCPM -H1) and in hovering 90SE strong wobbled always after aileron inputs.
Now (thanks to "new know how" for me - how to change this default set value) I set CG on 100 and CR on 60 and I hope, that it will help.
Your ATV in your transmitter should be set by using the TX calibration. Verify everything is "zeroed" at center stick, registering 100% travel at full stick, and moving in the correct direction. After doing this THEN measure how much Collective and Cyclic pitch you have. I'm suspecting the way you set it up you've reduce servo resolution on your transmitter instead of the Vbar. That is why longer arms are required. Your ATV will most likely end up pretty close to 100% on each end. DO NOT FLY IT IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE THE TX CALIBRATION CORRECTLY.

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11-24-2009 06:03 PM  7 years agoPost 37
Maxime30

rrApprentice

Quebec City, Canada

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Quick question about seting up the V-Bar:

I'm still unsure how I can adjust the subtrim in the software to make sure my servo horns are square when I am at zero pitch... Is it in the swashplate servo menu (item 4), advanced mode, servo parameters, center, and then I manually change the values until my servos horns are centered??

Thank you!

Max

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11-24-2009 06:59 PM  7 years agoPost 38
puma1824

rrVeteran

Maryland, USA

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Quick question about seting up the V-Bar:

I'm still unsure how I can adjust the subtrim in the software to make sure my servo horns are square when I am at zero pitch... Is it in the swashplate servo menu (item 4), advanced mode, servo parameters, center, and then I manually change the values until my servos horns are centered??
1. Verify and adjust TX Calibration Direction is correct. In the setup screen verify direction. Reverse servo channel on TX as needed.

2. Verify and adjust TX Calibration Center is correct. In the setup screen verify when both sticks are centered that 0% is on the screen. Adjust subtrim on TX on related channels until "zeroed".

3. Verify and adjust TX Calibration End-points is correct. In the setup screen go full stick in each direction and verify 100% travel. Adjust TX end-points until 100% on each end.

4. YOU ARE CORRECT about subtrim. Once completed, when you're in the setup mode, center sticks and mechanically setup as close to zero / 90 degrees on servo horns. Adjust Vbar "Swashplate Servos -> Center" in setup if required.

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11-24-2009 07:25 PM  7 years agoPost 39
Chuckie

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Crofton Maryland

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Puma reverse 1 and 2, set the direction first. You'll have to set the trim twice if the channel is backwards.

Please stand by for faster service!

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11-24-2009 07:46 PM  7 years agoPost 40
puma1824

rrVeteran

Maryland, USA

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Puma reverse 1 and 2, set the direction first. You'll have to set the trim twice if the channel is backwards.
Done...I was thinking I had to do that when I wrote it out but forgot to change by the time I finished writing. Thanks!

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybarless Raptor 90?
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