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HelicopterMain Discussion › FBLess...does it level the field between helicopter manufacturers?
10-23-2009 02:50 AM  8 years agoPost 61
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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Well, I believe fbl gyros help speed up learning.

For beginners, it's important to get into difficult orientations. Once there, they quickly learn. But, often they get disoriented when the heli does it's little quirkiness. Often, it causes him to avoid that again for a long time...too long. With FBL, he is more likely to get there and gain the experience and confidence.

Intermediate pilots learn faster because they don't have to spend so much time figuring out what errors need to be corrected.

For advanced pilots, although they have a lot of baggage to unload, once there, they will be able to learn faster and more precise new maneuvers without the extra overhead and time wasted trying to correct errors precisely.

Transitioning to a new heli, or between several that they own is a little quicker.

Since most of us don't seem to have as much time to fly as we'd like, I'd say this is another plus for the gyro.

Team POP Secret

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10-23-2009 03:54 AM  8 years agoPost 62
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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A copy of this limerick from pseudonym . . .

There once were men named bell, hiller,
who's new flying machine was a killer.
They went in behind
a shead and desiged
a flybar so the heli was stiller!
. . . belongs here.

And now it is. Good one!

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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10-23-2009 04:32 AM  8 years agoPost 63
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Sorry I am late but
A well setup flybarfed machine is just as fast/solid as a vbar, its just not as trick.
That sir is just not correct. A well setup FBL machine with good electronics will smoke a perfectly setup flybarred heli with premium electronics I have owned both a Logo 600 flybar and Logo 600 VBAR as well as a Logo 500 flybar and now a Logo 500 Mini-VBAR.......I can tell you that they are not the same in any way except for looks....well almost

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-23-2009 10:47 AM  8 years agoPost 64
pseudonym

rrApprentice

Edmonton, Alberta

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I think I have created a monster!

Glad you guys liked it! =)

------------------------------------------

Anyhow, I completely agree with laughing still. There is just no way that a flybarred heli can get the same preformance as that same bird in a flybarless setup. Beyond the complexity reduction, the biggest advantage is to remove the extra weight and resistance of the flybar. You can't overcome the physics of the situation no matter how talented you are with mechanical setup.

unspelling the world one misprint at a time.

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10-23-2009 11:00 AM  8 years agoPost 65
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Its still down to the pilot though.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-23-2009 12:06 PM  8 years agoPost 66
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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I'm finding that most of the post about not wanting FBL heli always also post that the cost is too much . My question is if you could afford it would you say it was the best way to go ? I was skeptical at first because I felt that I would have to worry about battery failure and no control if electronics failed just as I was about ccpm if 1 servo failed . Once I started doing fast transition tricks I found ccpm to be smoother and as for FBL also found setup correctly you have a positive feel no matter the wind conditions as well less load on motor to get thru loaded maneuvers.As far as cheating I dont think it is you still have to know how to set up and fly .Now autopilot could be cheating I just call it a false sense of security because when you quit using it you need to learn how to fly all over .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-23-2009 01:15 PM  8 years agoPost 67
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I'm sorry but how is "it's still down to the pilot" relevent here? Not quite sure I see the point this is to make.

Team POP Secret

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10-23-2009 01:20 PM  8 years agoPost 68
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Cheating question ? cheating would make it easy to fly but the setup on FBL is harder than flybared setup so pilot is still determining the quality of flight .I feel that you get a crisper feel (gyro)less weight and more efficient flying heli. Other than less effected by strong winds you can setup to fly/feel just the same as flybar.You can cheat on electronics(VBar/Skook/etc) with FBL but you are taking a chance in failures you can turn up parameters on PC to make heli have a faster response where on FB heli the electronics(servos) are more critical for speed .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-23-2009 04:26 PM  8 years agoPost 69
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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"A well setup FBL machine with good electronics will smoke a perfectly setup flybarred heli with premium electronics"

Like I said its down to who is flying them.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-23-2009 04:41 PM  8 years agoPost 70
Furyous

rrVeteran

Detroit, Michigan

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I don't think it is cheating. So basically CY is cheating? He used his Total G for F3C competition. CY is just one of the many pros using FBL systems. It is not about cheating...like Jag said it is about the sheer enjoyment of the hobby. I personally love the feel of FBL.
Curtis did not use the Total G in F3C competition. You are only allowed gyro stabilization on one axis and it cannot be on the swashplate for F3C competition.

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10-23-2009 05:07 PM  8 years agoPost 71
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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See now you are just wanting to argue re-read and really soak it up it was a coment about pilots not any compitition . But I beleve FBL will be alowed and pilots will fly them in due time.

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-23-2009 05:27 PM  8 years agoPost 72
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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OH, I think I know what you meant now. That was my point. Same pilot, same qual. level...etc...just one with flybar and one FBL with gyro and equal experience with both. I believe the FBL would smoke the flybarred. Whether you are into crazy 3d or precision maneuvers or a combination of both.

Regarding the thought that using FBL Gyros is cheating, here's a senario that comes to mind when I hear this.
If, for some crazy reason, all race cars were required to have the stearing wheel nut loose so there was to be at least 10 degrees play, drivers would all develope their skill to compensate. When it is proposed to eliminate this from the rule books, those who have developed the skill will naturally resist. When it is eliminated as a rule, which takes time to prevent mayhem, all drivers will adjust and move forward. It is a very natural and understandable scenario that will play out again and again as we all move forward.

Team POP Secret

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10-23-2009 05:43 PM  8 years agoPost 73
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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For Richard;
10-15 years from now:
Daddy, why are you still flying those weird looking, old flybar contraptions, those things went out years ago...they are antiques, and they look like crap! Your flying style is slow and obsolete, and your contraption is hindering you from flying like we (flying buddies) do. Please daddy, let me help you put a FBL on your old machine...it will make it come to life and you will be able to learn to fly more like we do!!!

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10-23-2009 06:56 PM  8 years agoPost 74
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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UM...That has already happened. Why do you think I'm flying FBL now!

I don't think flybars are ugly though. I do think they are works of art. Some certainly are anyway.

Team POP Secret

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10-23-2009 07:22 PM  8 years agoPost 75
LaurenceGough

rrElite Veteran

UK

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When I have the £$£$£$ I'm converting all my helis to FBL.

At the end of the day what's more fun? FBL that's my view for sure.

I used to be against FBL as it's like cheating, but in reality it's not really at all, it's the future.

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10-23-2009 07:45 PM  8 years agoPost 76
VooDooX

rrElite Veteran

San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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it will be a shame if flybars go the way of the dodo i would at least like the option to buy one there awesome devices

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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10-23-2009 07:51 PM  8 years agoPost 77
Ghostrider

rrElite Veteran

San Diego, CA

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Cheating???

Moving from a 70 size motor to a 90 size motor?
Not having a tail gyro vs. having one?
Wood blades to carbon blades?
Wood paddles to carbon paddles?
Plastic frames to carbon frames?
8 degrees of pitch to 12 degrees?
10% nitro to 30% nitro?
Adjustable head vs. non adjustable?
Idle up vs. no idle up?
72 mhz to 2.4

Should I continue? Bottom line, it's technology and advancement in our hobby. It will never stop and those of you that want to fight it have the right to do so but in time, you will be left in the dust.

Just my 2cents.

As the OP of this thread, I appreciate all the contributions.

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10-23-2009 08:09 PM  8 years agoPost 78
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Go on , its going in good direction now

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-23-2009 08:12 PM  8 years agoPost 79
Band1086

rrElite Veteran

Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Well said, Ghostrider, WELL SAID!!!

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10-23-2009 08:40 PM  8 years agoPost 80
fritzthecat

rrKey Veteran

Virginia Beach, VA

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When I have the £$£$£$ I'm converting all my helis to FBL.
Not that expensive.

A chinese 3 axis FTS is U$350.
New Flybarless metal head U$125.

You save U$175 for the tailrotor gyro.
Sell the original head for U$75.

Total cost is under U$300 per heli. Two sets of CF blades.

Fritz


'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

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HelicopterMain Discussion › FBLess...does it level the field between helicopter manufacturers?
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